16ga.com ~ View topic - Which 16 gauge guns ARE built on 16ga frames???

As a newbie to this forum (but not to 16ga guns, I have been shooting my granddads Remington 1933 Model 11 since I was in HS and I LOVE that gun), I was curious as to which guns by which manufacturers are on 16ga frames. This question is of particular relevance to older guns as well as the new ones.

There are a few that I know aren't just from causally reading on here. I.E. the Remington 1100/870's that are on the 12 gauge frames. Others? I would assume (maybe wrongly) that most of your upscale newer guns (Merkel, AyA, Citori's, etc.) are going to be on 16 or 20 gauge frames.

What about the older guns? Ithaca Model 37, Winchester Model 12, Remington Model 31, Remington 11-48, LC Smith, Lefever etc?

Anyway, thanks for a great forum and I am Christmas shopping for a new 16 gauge myself, what to get?

Brad

Guest

As memory serves me here are some of the Classic American guns:

Model 12 (same frame used for 16, 20 and 28 gauge)
AH Fox (same frame used for 16 and 20 gauge)
LC Smith feather weight
Ithaca NID
Syracuse Lefever XX Frame(same frame used for 16 and 20 gauge)
Parker 0 and 1 frame (some very light 12 gauge guns were built on 1 frames and heavier 16s were built on 1 1/2 frames. It gets pretty confusing with Parkers because Parker would build whatever the customer wanted)

And probably several more I am not familiar with.

Member Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 743

KyBrad, you're correct on the newer guns. Citoris are on their own scaled frame, as are AyA's. The Merkel 1620 is actually on a 20ga frame, and is very light as a result. The FAIR (I. Rizzini) 16's currently being sold by Cabela's are also on 16ga frames and are quite light.

*Last edited by brdhnt on Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:13 pm; edited 1 time in total*

Two others.

The Ithaca Model 37 was always built on a 16 gauge frame. The Remington 11-48 semi-autos made after 1954 were built on 20 gauge frames. I have a pre-54 model 11-48 that weighs 7 1/4 pounds and a post-54 11-48 that weighs 6 1/2. The heavier one has a 26 inch barrel and the lighter one a 28.

TMB
________
Green Crack

Interesting comments, thanks much guys.

Lets see if I can list them all now...

16 gauge or lighter frames -

New guns - (with thanks to Larry Brown)
Arrieta
Arrizibalaga
AyA
Browning Citori
Churchill (these and the Arrizabalaga's are practically custom guns...)
Conn. Shotgun Co.
Darne
FAIR/Rizzini
Grulla
Holland and Holland (again, hardly a "production" gun...)
Merkel
Piotti
Poli (?)
Uggie

(which ones did I miss? Other than custom builds, what other companies are making them on the 16 ga frames?)

Older guns - (thanks to dbl and brdhntr)
Browning A5 (I assumed this but I could be wrong)
Fox
Ithaca - Model 37, Flues, and NID
LC Smith
Lefever
Parker
Purdey (I assume that all of the classic english doubles in 16 would be scaled to the frame since they were all basically specially ordered for the American market)
Remington - Model 11 (? not sure on this one either, just like the A-5, but mine is lighter than a 12ga version...)
Model 11-48 (post 1954)
Stevens
Traditions (the REAL 16...or so their marketing says)
Winchester Model 12

(I am sure I missed a bunch of these, and there are a bunch that I don't know yet either... feel free to chip in with further info.)

Unknowns:
Kreighoffs (? mostly skeet/clay guns, hard to say)
Remington Model 32 ???
Savage ???
Winchester Model 21 (? not sure on this one, I would assume that it was a lighter frame, but not positive... hmm)
Model 24 ???
1400??

NOT 16 gauge frames - call 'em pseudo-16's

Remington 1100/870 (grr, given that an 1100 was my first new shotgun, that I still have and shoot very well with, this really irks me. I would love to have a true 16ga 1100 to give to my son when he gets old enough. I agree with 16gaugeguy, hunters should help to make this happen with Remington someday... sigh.)

Stoeger
NEF
Spartan

some comments... looking at that list of new guns, only the AyA, Browning, FAIR/Rizzini, Merkel and Uggie's can REALLY be considered production guns, i.e. guns that are made in enough quantities to be affordable (and these are marginally affordable at $1500 to $4000) by 99% of the hunting/sporting population. The rest of them, well it's kind of like looking at RR or Ferrari sports cars... great to look at but no hope of ever owning one. Its hard to make a case for 16ga, when there are so few new guns that are made in a true 16 gauge, meaning that it seems like most hunters will never get to experience a REAL 16 gauge that carries like a 20 and hits like a 12. That would be a real crime to a great gauge.

KyBrad

P.S. On a lighter note, I DID treat myself to a 16 gauge for Christmas... picked up a nice (95% condition) Ithaca featherweight over the weekend. Shoots and carries like a champ. Now for that Citori, or was it an Uggie?

Joined: 14 Nov 2005 Posts: 136 Location: ohio

The Uggie Mod-30 are very nice. The balance and point are great. The action well machined and fitting top class. Used $700-1000,new $1300-$2000 depending on trim level. Very nice walnut stock and forearm. Allso bushed firing pins.

Member Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 398 Location: S Fl

You can add the Rem Sportsman 58 to the "as heavy as a 12" list.

Pete

Also consider the Browning Citori. Its priced (for now) well under the Fair/Rizzini guns and comes with choke tubes for versatility. Plus you have a well established American brand name firm with an excellent reputation and reliable service facility right here in Arnold, MO. But don't procrastinate. The last batch made are disappearing fast and prices are mounting for good clean used ones. There might not ( and probably won't be) any more made. Which means these guns will also be good candidates for collector status, maintain a cetain degree of demand, and will hold their value well to boot.

Member Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 665 Location: Louisiana

The Marlin Model 90 O/U--a real sweetheart.

Joined: 29 Nov 2005 Posts: 67 Location: Atlanta, GA

The winchester 24 is definitely built on the smaller 20/16 ga frame.

Weagle
________
Zx14 vs hayabusa

Joined: 07 Dec 2005 Posts: 5 Location: Connecticut

16gaugeguy or others,
Where all Citoris built on 16ga frames or where some built on 12ga frames?? If they were built on 12ga frames are they too heavy or poor handling?? Thanks, Dave

C, all the 16ga Citori models were built on a modified 20 ga. frame. None on 12 ga. frames. I've heard of aftermarket 16 ga. barrels fitted to 12 ga. guns, but have never seen one. Nor would it make much sense. The 12 ga. Superlight citori w/ 26" barrels would probably out handle it and be at least as light. I have one. It was my heavy upland gun until I got my first 16 ga. Lightning some years back. Now it gathers dust. I should sell it.

KyB, Most definately. The 16 ga. Citori balances marginally better than any other Citori I've ever handled, and handles a bit more crisply too. Although I can't say the small frame guns are bad either. I really love my little Superlight .410. Its my all time favorite recreational low gun skeet gun. However, for upland hunting, the 16 outshines the 20 by a bit, especially the new overbored 20 guns on all counts.

I've never had trouble with either the Beretta 686 or the 12ga. Citori in the fit department. Both field models have about identical stock deminsions. However, the 12 ga. Beretta is decidedly lighter and sweeter handling than a 12 ga. Citori if both are standard field models. But I rarely shoot 12 ga. guns now except for trap with my Perazzi guns.

Remington replied that even though they had no immediate plans to make an LT-16, it was requests like mine that inform them of the desires of the gun buying community. They did not say it was impossible or that they never would.

I intend to periodically keep raising the issue with them. If anyone of you out there would want one too, then drop them a line, and do it every so often. If they hear it enough, who knows what might come of it. We do stand a better chance domestically than with an off-shore maker as far as influence would count in getting a light frame 16 auto.

Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 787 Location: Indiana

Today I found, and bought, a 16 ga. Citori Lightning at Blythe's Sport Shop, Griffith, IN. It has 26" barrels and seems to point well. I'm going to use it on the Game Bird Habitat Stamp hunt in Benton County tomorrow morning. MY son and I are going after pheasants , wild ones, on the state-managed land. Can't wait ! I'll let you know how it works out....

Wolfchief:

Good luck on the hunt with the 16 ga lightning. I posted last week that I had just gotten a 28 inch lightning through gunbroker.com. I am extremely pleased. I have shot several rounds of skeet already - well OK, 8 rounds, no straights (shooters fault), but several 24s Rolling Eyes

.

I can't wait to go to Kansas in January to use it on pheasants and quail.

Mine has the pachmyr pad with the xxxxs on the sides. I ordered a pre-fit leather covered pachmyr from Grafs - should be at the club tomorrow. I will let you know how it fits and what I think - stay tuned.

I have also put a HI-VIZ sight on mine - green. Works well - even in the snow Thursday.

Is your son going to get to carry the citori? Wink

good luck....