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Joined: 09 Jul 2008 Posts: 5

Did some patterning with my Ithaca 37 today. It's marked Full, and looks like it measures .025 restriction. At 40 yards, it was throwing a 75% pattern in a 30" circle. At 20 yards, the 1 oz of #6 gun would ruin any upland bird or small game animal. At 40 yards the 1 1/8 oz loads seem to be getting pretty thin. Rem Express loaded with #6 would probably quarantee hits with a correctly place shot, but it would be pretty iffy with the same load with #4 shot. Fiocchi Golden Pheasant load with #5 performed terribly, and it would take luck to hit a bird. Even with a full choke am I expecting too much out of a 1 1/8 oz load at that range? Suprisingly, 1 oz of #6 looks to have been doing as well as the heavier loads at 40 yards. Need to pattern that load again and be sure of what I'm seeing.

~Michael

Ask yourself this one question ( What is the range that I can hit the majority of FLYING targets , say 85 + % ) This should be the maximum range of the 16ga. ( IN YOUR HANDS) .

Perhaps you should look in the opposite direction and lessen the amount of shot not more .

Old Timer once told a Dumb Hillbilly Kid ( Never shoot a pattern on paper with anything that you intend to shoot at something flying ) I always remember the lesson .

Regards Charles

Member Joined: 21 Mar 2008 Posts: 48 Location: NJ

I use 1 1/8 oz #6 for all of my bird hunting. I never had any issues with crippling pheasants or chukars using that load. I have hunted over pointing dogs and over flushing dogs with the same results. You just need to be able to pass up on those "iffy" shots when you feel the bird is out of the effective killing range.

Joined: 19 Jun 2004 Posts: 1480 Location: Mpls, MN.

There are some 16 gauge 1 1/8 oz loads around here, mostly promo loads of one sort or another, but, I have had stellar success with premium, English, 2 1/2 inch 1 oz 16 gauge loads.

Effective range is a bit further than I shoot. A rooster with a full head of steam at forty yards is different than a just flushing bird at same.

Experience will teach you what you can get away with. Mostly.

I pattern guns. Doing so taught me to stay away from number 4 loads for pheasants out of a 16 gauge A5 back in the day. Simply not enough pellets to reliably do the job I was asking.

I also got a load of bad advice from a really good gunsmith to only use Winchester FeatherLites for pheasant hunting, out of a turn-of-the-century English 12 double. This is a light, low noise and recoil load, which would be OK for game farm birds, but, patterning and chronograph testing showed they would be terrible out of my guns for anything big and wild. OK for informal clays shooting or instruction.
Best,
Ted

Joined: 05 Feb 2008 Posts: 184 Location: Dover-Foxcroft, ME

One of the things I've learned from patterning is that the 30" circle isn't all that important. As shooting skill develops you find that you come alot closer to centering any targets and birds that you hit. And when you miss, you miss by feet because you weren't looking hard or you head didn't stay down. That outer circle doesn't do much in the real world.

The 30" circle is important for determining overall percentage (nominal choke). But I look for bird-sized holes within the 24 circle nowadays. A shooter of Charle's skill level probably works with a much smaller circle.

Now if you're seeing holes in the 24" circle at 40 yds your load is probably beyond full bloom - the core is no longer effective.

If you're looking for a 40 yd phez crusher I'd suggest trying B&P F2s in #5. Those are actually #5.5s by US measure. In my .021 M12 I can crush birds at 40 yds.......and quite a bit beyond that.

Sam

Member Joined: 31 Oct 2005 Posts: 446 Location: Wisconsin

Patterning of course is your best way of determining if your particular choke/ammunition combination is capable of doing what you want.
You did not indicate the species of bird/game you want to take?
Also I don't know what "looks like it measures .025 restriction" means and how you measured the restriction? It either measures 25 or it doesn't. My 1939 M37 with 28" FULL measures 29 thousands restriction.
In any event it looks like you have answered your own questions.-Dick

Joined: 09 Jul 2008 Posts: 5

Joined: 19 Feb 2008 Posts: 443

Hello Michale :

Just kinda by reading what your saying , perhaps you would be better suited to , NOT CUTTING YOUR BARREL , dropping an adjustable reamer down the barrel the way she is and taking her out to say perhaps .012

This will give you a decent compromise by reloading you can make an IC to an IM out of your gun from that one choke plenty tight enough to take a Pheasant to 40 yards or open enough to take the woodcock you mentioned up close.

With that configeration , that will be a very good compromise in a very compromising world .

What every you end up doing , JUST HAVE FUN DOING IT WITH YOUR 16GA. AND PRACTICE , PRACTICE , AND MORE PRACTICE.

The more you handle that gun , pull that trigger , the better and more comfortable you become , thus you will answer many of these questions for yourself , as YOU ARE THE ONE DOING THE SHOOTING AND HAVING THE FUN.

FIND OUT WHAT WORKS FOR YOU !!!!!!!!!! THEN TELL US ALL ABOUT IT .

Regards Charles

Member Joined: 16 Nov 2006 Posts: 1338

Member Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 1522 Location: NH

I would go with choke tubes being installed if you are going to use the one gun approach.
I find that with my 1620 and Briley choke tubes I can use one gun for just about anything I want to do. I usually use Skt1 and Skt2 tubes when hunting the state stocked and club stocked birds here in NJ. Even on those though, later in the season the leftovers get wise. They usually start flushing out a bit further. I then leave the Skt1 tube in for closer shots but change the second barrel to either Mod or Full. Changing the ammo with the different chokes is also another approach to accomplish the task at hand with the one gun approach.

With that said, I would be lieing if I said I didn't have a "couple" of other doubles choked differently that can also be used just because. Wink

I find the Fiocchi GPs in #5s work really well out of the Skt2 and Mod chokes. Not as well out of the Full choke.
With the Mod choke and the GPs I have no problem dropping pheasants at 35-40 yds.

Guest

As it was asked in this thread was a question of where do you hunt and what types of birds (and are they wild or pen raised)?? The Golden Pheasant shot is more hype than actual and you would do better with a good grade of high antimony lead from either West Coast or Lawrence in nothing larger than #5. If you're shooting wild pheasants, there is nothing wrong with your first shot of #6's backed by #5's. Outside of wild chukar and phesants, where a full choke is more of a hinderance due to mentioned birds ability to run ahead of the dogs and provide a "long distance" point.

Good luck and look through some of the former threads on this topic...

Member Joined: 31 Oct 2005 Posts: 446 Location: Wisconsin

My M37 with 28" FULL is used for iether squirrels or jump shooting ducks. As you have discovered, the FULL is too tight for much else. Since my M37 is a 1939 gun and original barrels are extremely hard to come by, I won't be putting on tubes. I am waiting for Ithaca to be able tp supply a 26" barrel with tubes. Depending on the vintage of your M37, that may be an option.
In any event these are great pumps and in 16 gauge, superb!
-Dick

Joined: 09 Jul 2008 Posts: 5

Guest

If you can beg, borrow or steal some good Western or Lawrence #5 shot, you only need a pound to do some patterning with it. I would make a few loads in the 1 oz, 1 1/16 oz, and 1 1/8 oz. receipes. Try your patterning at 35 yards and let us know your results. If you think these loads are too tight to make hamburger out of your birds, why don't you get a decent gunsmith to open up your choke to be a Improved Mod (my #1 choice) or possibly Modified. A model 37 is a good functional gun but if you want it to make it YOUR shooter, then open up the choke so it will work for you. A lot of birds were shot with the model 37 and there is no reason why it shouldn't be a good gun to suit your needs.

Good luck....