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<  16ga. Guns  ~  16 gauge barrrel length....opinions wanted
Brian Meckler
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:53 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 265

I have a very close friend who is looking at the CSM 21 in 16 gauge. He currently doesn't own a 16 gauge( I am trying to convert him). My friend is a tall muscular man and he likes long barrels. I though the larger 21 would really fit his needs.


The friend went to CSMC last Friday and he handled the 21s. Out of all the guns at Galazans he stated that the 16s felt the best. They felt very light even though the guns tip the scales at 7 pounds. He also stated that even the 29" barrels felt very quick, almost too quick.

The conclusion that he and I came up with was why not a 2 barrel set. Barrel number one would be 32 inches choked .012 and .025!! The second barrel would be 29 inches and choked .015 and .020. The idea being that one could be used for pass shooting and the other for walk-up.

There is no way he is going to go smaller than 29" barrels. What do you gents think of a 32" and 29" barrel combo? Has anyone ever seen a 32" 16 gauge? (I haven't)


Best,
Brian.
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:10 pm  Reply with quote
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The best I could say on this is for him to make his choice based on his own experiences. I can understand why a tall, well muscled fellow would want a gun with longer barrels.

First, a proper length of pull for him would require a longer stock. A longer barrel would balance this heavier and longer piece of wood better.

Second, the space between his hands will naturally be slightly wider. More weight at the barrel end of this space will help keep that nice even between the hands feel better for him.

Plus, the longer gun will be slightly heavier and will help him swing the gun and his own frame with it more steadily. I've noticed that its often the bigger and more heavily muscled guys who have the most trouble swinging very light guns well. It takes more inertia to stabilize more power. Also, he sounds like hes in good shape so I doubt the extra weight will slow his shooting down any.

Finally, if he's going to spring for that much gun, I'd hope he'd get to sample a very similar piece before plunking down that kind of money. It would be a very costly mistake to order it and not like the feel after the fact. Although, a little weight added or subtracted at either end can do wonders for gun balance and feel.

Anyway, I do know that once a fellow shoots a trim, well balanced 16 at a decent sized game bird and witnesses the effect, no lesser gauge will do. He's gonna love it.
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bustingclays
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:31 pm  Reply with quote
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Gentlemen:

I keep buying lottery tickets each week so that one day I too can go to CSMC and get a 16 ga Model 21. I would go for a 3 barrel set (26, 28, and 30 inch with choke tubes myself, case colored, high grade walnut - Very Happy ).

In regards to barrel length, I find it depends a LOT on the use of the gun. In skeet I like minimum 28 inch and prefer 30. In trap I use 28 and 30 inch too. For sporting clays sometimes I drop down to 26 - depends on the course. For hunting I usually don't go over 28 inch. hmmmm... it appears that the 28 inch barrel is my all around average.

Oh, and I'm going to Steve Barnett's, Thad Scott's, Quality Arms, and Paxton Arms after I stop at CSMC.

good shooting....

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good shooting.....

Dr. 16 Gauge
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Brian Meckler
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:54 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 265

Bustin clays

You don't want a CC receiver. Case harding the 21 makes it almost 50% weaker and it looses it's elasticity.


Just in case you pick your lucky numbers Wink
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bustingclays
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:54 pm  Reply with quote
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Location: Illinois (in the burbs of St. Louis)

Hey Brian:

Didn't know that about cc and 21s - would that be the same for other cc sxs shotguns? I have a Huglu Ringneck in 410 (28" ic/mod) that is case colored and a fox model b 16ga that is case colored too.

Thanks for the tip. Idea I'll settle for blued receiver with LOT of gold birds on it - how is that?

good shooting....

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good shooting.....

Dr. 16 Gauge
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budrichard
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:00 pm  Reply with quote
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Brian, NEVER seen a 32" 16 gauge of any kind. When I purchase a shotgun and barrel combination, my first question is what am i going to shoot with it? For Pass shooting with 32", it could be anything from doves to geese. For geese. thier just aren't any large pellet loads available in 16 gauge. If geese are not the object, then 32" will be ok but I would be concerned with the gun being muzzle heavy, especially in a 21. I have a 16 gauge 21 SKEET and at 6#'s 12.4oz, it is certainly heavy enough for me in the field. Although not designed for field, Winchester advertised it as suitable. I would and have ordered other 16 gauge 2 barrel sets that were 26" SKT1/SKT2for the tough stuff and 28" M/F for pass shooting. -Dick
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Brian Meckler
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:34 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 265

Bustin Clays,

I am not a metallurgest so I can't tell you why CC the 21 frame weakend the frame but CC does not weaken frames with high carbon content (European guns)

Winchester (and CSMC) used heat treated chrome molybdenum alloy steel for the frame. The 21 was the first frame in the USA that was blued instead of case hardned. Winchester tested both a CC version and a blued version of their 21 frame.

Both frames were heat treated then one was CC and the other blued. The CC frame had a tensile strength of 94,200 pounds per square inch an elastic limit of 85,400 pounds per square inch, and elongation of 2 percent and a reduction area of 0 percent. The blued frame however had a tensile strength of 174,600 pounds per square inch and elastic limit of 160,950 pounds per square inch, an elongation of 12 percent and a reduction area of 63.7 percent.

I think the gold might just be the ticket Cool

try these
6,14,23,31,7, bonus 41 Wink
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Ted Schefelbein
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:20 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 1480
Location: Mpls, MN.

OK Brian, now I'm going to attack you!! TORA! TORA! TORA! The Baker Black Beauty and Black Beauty Special, and Tobin Black Diamond all had blued receivers! And, they were all long out of production before the 21 was even on the drawing board.

HA!!

Hey, not often I get to correct someone on an AMERICAN gun-not bad, eh? I used my meanest keyboarding fingers! Hope everyone is still OK!

Thanks for the info on case hardening-I've seen it before, but, had forgotton about it. The difference is the Winchester used tool steel, and just about eveything else used low carbon steel, that picked up carbon at the surface in the bone pack.

That said, I look at those looooong action bars on model 21s, and am reminded just how well proportioned a Fox looks in comparison.

But, a guy would work awful hard to wear out a 21.
Best,
Ted
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Brian Meckler
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:56 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 265

Ted,

O.K. I surrender but really the Tobin isn't a real gun Twisted Evil

Plus ugly is as ugly does....remember I like Darnes and Charlins too Wink
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Ted Schefelbein
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:09 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 1480
Location: Mpls, MN.

Brian,
All my roosters this year fell to that not real Tobin!

I'm sure their dead souls might challenge you on the "real gun bit".

The grouse fell to the R10, of course.

For what its worth, I passed on a 16 gauge Lefever with 30 inch tubes recently. It was an H grade with multiple problems, but, as I recall, handled more like a fence post with those barrels.

I was left quite underwhelmed in the guns handling qualities.
Best,
Ted
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Brian Meckler
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:56 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 265

Ted,

A lefever with 30 inch barrels does feel like a fence post. Remember what my Bruchet Darne felt like with the 30" barrels? Razz

That Tobin's days are numbered once Herve makes you a 16 gauge Darne!!!
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Ted Schefelbein
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:46 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 1480
Location: Mpls, MN.

Just not necessary, buddy-the R10 is lighter than the great majority of 16s, including my Tobin , great wood I watched Hervé put on it, the sling, and the history of being bodio's gun before it was mine. It is my keeper, if you know what I mean. Longer tubes would be nice, but, I have other guns for those few missions.
Good luck with the 21 project. Keep swinging the 16 Darne-sounds like a killer.
Best,
Ted
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Brad6260
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:22 pm  Reply with quote
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Location: Louisville,KY

Hi gang,

We ought to know by now to never say never in the world of shotgun design.

Dave Riffle has on his web site an A-1 Parker 16 upgrade with factory 32" peerless barrels.

32" wow?

I'm still stuck on my 28" DHE or Model 21 dilemma. Tough choice?

Cheers,

Brad
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Brian Meckler
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:55 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 265

AHHH Ted,

spoken like a true married man........ welcome to the club Twisted Evil
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Ted Schefelbein
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:02 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 1480
Location: Mpls, MN.

Brian,
Yea, funny what 110 lbs of brown eyed Colombian hotty does to a guys gun buying habits...but, did I mention it's worth it?

I don't have the time to use the guns I have, anyway! Perhaps a day or two of hunting left for me this season...what a pity!
Best,
Ted
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