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Member Joined: 08 Jan 2008 Posts: 65

Recently I had to say goodbye to my friend of 13 years, my German Shorthair Sierra.

Some 'issues' she had prevented me from bringing a pup as an 'overlap dog' into the house while she was still alive, but I am now soon to add a new dog to our home. I have selected the breed and have a deposit on a litter (but I'm third in line for a female).

I didn't hunt with Sierra, I didn't even own a shotgun most of her life. I just have always loved sporting dogs. We did obedience stuff but primarily she was just a companion. But recently I've gotten back into shotgunning and have been bird hunting with a friend and really enjoyed it. I can only imagine the bond that's possible from hunting over your own dog. But I don't think I'll be bird hunting more than a handful of days a year. I have a lot of other hobbies - fly fishing, kayaking, target shooting, clay shooting, etc. - and can't see spending huge amounts of time training a dog to hunt and then using that dog in the field like three times a year or something.

That's not to say I don't spend a lot of time with my dog, because I do. We don't have kids, our dogs are our kids. And I enjoy obedience training.

The dog I'm getting is a Wirehaired Vizsla. My questions are:

Is it possible, if your expectations are low and if your hunting partners share those expectations, if you have control of your dog off lead, to take a dog hunting without spending hundreds of hours training her? Kind of just using her natural abilities combined with a little bit of backyard training?

If obedience training is first and foremost, are there things - like sitting - that I'd be teaching my dog that would be counter productive in a hunting environment? Or does it just not matter that much? I think that people who show dogs and hunt dogs don't teach them to sit, is that right?

Sorry for the long post. Thanks for any guidance or advice.

Here is my favorite picture of Sierra...

Member Joined: 19 Mar 2007 Posts: 279 Location: Mn

Hi Beautiful picture! I have a 2.5 year old GSP myself that I dearly love as a companion and hunting dog. I think your dog can be what you want it to be as long as you are satisfied. If you get the basic obedience commands down and she has any natural ability bred into her she will probably make an ok hunter. Like anything, the more a dog is exposed to birds and hunting the more they will develop what potential they have. Get your dog and enjoy.

Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 268 Location: Meridian, ID

EddieF

As long as you have realistic expectations your dog should do ok. It is not your job to teach the dog to hunt. It should handle that by itself through natural instincts.

Do WHOA training and don't worry about sit. Retrieving shouldn't be a problem with the breed of dog you are getting.

I would expose your dog to birds before the first hunt and hunt her as a pup if she isn't too young.

Member Joined: 02 Feb 2007 Posts: 371 Location: mpls mn

Have you considered working with a professional trainer. I can't recommend Chad Hinds at willow creek kennels in little falls minnesota highly enough. The puppy class would get you obediance and bird work then you could take it from there yourself plus Chad Hinds is great at working with you as well as your dog if thats what you would want. I agree with teaching whoa rather than sit I wish I never taught my dog the sit command. unique breed choice with the Wirehaired Vizsla post some pictures.

Member Joined: 08 Jan 2008 Posts: 65

Member Joined: 14 Feb 2007 Posts: 110

I'm gonna guess that I speak for a majority of us. We don't do field trials, we don't spend hours and hours on training.

My dogs are extremely calm, extremely birdy, come when called, love to hear the gun and stay close in the field.

My time for training has been minimal. I used a wing on a pole and I got them (slowly) to realize that a loud bang means it's time for fun.

I now firmly believe that most of this comes with the pup the day you bring him/her home.

So, research the breed, call references, do homework.

A calm companion type breed will take easily to nonprofessional training. On the other hand, if you want a dog that will never break on a point, retrieves to hand consistently and has an insurance coverage that it'll never chase a rabbit, you'll want a different type of dog and a pro trainer...

Member Joined: 08 Jan 2008 Posts: 65

Member Joined: 07 Jan 2008 Posts: 348 Location: Missouri

What HenryBelton said.

The wirehaired Visla look like lite colored Pudelpointers. I would assume they are tough, loyal and lots of natural ability like most Versitile breeds. Your dog will hunt just fine as long as you have control over him. You can train everything you need in the yard of course the more bird contact he has the better he'll get. Whoa and come are the two commands that must be taugh 100%. There is a Wirehaired Visla breeder in New York but sorry I don't remember the name.

Eddie,I am reluctant to disagree with others on this fine board,but my backgrond is so like your own, I feel I have some basis for doing so.

I put 12 obedience titles (plus a ScHI) on various dogs before I ever saw a bird dog. These days, in terms of house stuff and general manners, I train dogs automatically just by living with them. Others think they are "naturally" good dogs. Sometimes I do, too. But we are wrong.

That's the way it is with sensible people who have had long exposure to bird dogs. They train dogs automatically and unknowingly, just based on reflexes and experience,and it can seem easy to them. It isn't, for you. You have neither,and living with an older dog, you forget how nuts a young dog can be.

Here's a good suggestion.Read books on bird dog training, but early in the dog's development, take him to a pro you like personally within driving distance. YOU train the dog under his direction.He will give homework in terms of daily work with the dog.

I got a high powered well-socialized but untrained well-bred adult dog. I trained three days a week for four months (plus homework) with a fine pro for $25 a lesson plus birds. Big commitment,as I had to drive some to get there, but it was only four months. It was the best possible use of my money and time. At the end, both my dog and I were trained. The pro never touched or spoke to my dog. I did, under his direction.

No point in talking about our later accomplishments, which are considerable, but it is the best way for a novice to train a dog. You owe it to him to give your dog the best. You don't need to go to the extreme I did, but the methodology is the right one. imo

By the way, teaching a dog sit is no problem for an obedience trainer. Just teach"whoa" as a "stand for examination" command.He won't mix them up, anymore than Siera confused "stand" with "sit". Two different commands. I don't use the sit command in the field, through.Usually.

Member Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 972 Location: Keller,TX

Steve, I couldn't agree more with your advice. This is the route I'm going to take in the near future.

Thirty years ago, I trained three EP's over a 12 year period- all had different personalities as well as faults. I ended up reading and following old proven methods and they worked. I only wish I had a pro trainer available then- It would have saved me some time. All in all, they all gave their best and it was a very rewarding time in my life. The one constant they all had was extreme desire to find birds. I always made sure they came from good stock.

Eddie, I think this will be a very intresting trial for you. I strongly urge that you follow Steve's advice.

I feel that you might like to share your experiences on the board with us. Please let us know what's happening.

Joined: 19 Feb 2008 Posts: 443

Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 1460 Location: Eagle, Nebraska

Talk about opening up a can of worms. First, I disagree with your choice of breeds for what you are going to do with the dog. But choosing a breed is a very touchy subject. I think someone has on this forum a saying about "...say what you want about my wife, but be real careful what you say about my hunting dog..." In my opinion there are no "bad" breeds. A person just needs to choose a breed that fits his needs. Example, don't get an english pointer if you want your dog to never hunt further than 40 yds from you. OR don't buy a GSP if you want the dog to be pulling Canada geese out of a river wvery weekend.

I don't care for GSPs either. Not that they are bad dogs, in fact I have hunted behind some pretty good ones, but they way I like to hunt, and they way I want my dog to behave is not a GSP. I like my dogs to hunt close, and I mean close. I also want it to point. SO this rules out the flushing breeds, I have a 13 yr old Small Munsterlander, my new pup is a St. Usuge Spaniel who I believe will hunt even closer than my SMP! Both sleep in our bed at night. A requirement for me, not so for others. Many do not believe in keeping dog in the house. My point is, if you don't want to keep dog in the house don't buy a SMP or a St. Usuge Spaniel. They need to be with you.

I think your biggest training will be simply obedience. If you can get dog to sit or whoa, whichever you choose, in the field with "bird in her nose" then you will have what you want.

In my opinion, reading what you are going to do and want from the dog, a Boykin spaniel, or a lab would be your ticket. BUt that is only MY opinion, and is worth two cents or less. The reason that there is so many breeds, is well, everybody wants something different.

Keep the dog in you house, be with it whenever possible, never raise your hand or your voice to it, and teach him to whoa (or sit) on command and you will not be disappointed at all.

I really can't give dog training advice except to say have fun, enjoy the ride, train for obedience, and let the dog train you.

http://s45.photobucket.com/albums/f94/Equismith/

It's just too hot right now for training. Libby loves to get out and hunt birds though.

Good luck.

Bud

Joined: 16 Nov 2006 Posts: 367

Hi,

You know what you want, but consider also the Springer and Brit's, they are hunting machine.
Concentrate on obedience and then the field commands.

May I offer the following regarding your loss...
(it helps the pain, but the ache lingers) and something to look forward to...

THE RAINBOW BRIDGE
There is a bridge connecting Heaven and Earth. It is called the Rainbow Bridge because of its many colors.
Just this side of the Rainbow Bridge there is a land of meadows, hills and valleys with lush green grass. When a beloved pet dies, the pet goes to this place.
There is always food and water and warm spring weather. The old and frail animals are young again. Those who are maimed are made whole again. They play all day with each other.
There is only one thing missing. They are not with their special person who loved them on Earth.
So, each day they run and play until the day comes when, one suddenly stops playing and looks up! The nose twitches! The ears are up! The eyes are staring! And this one suddenly runs from the group!
You have been seen, and when you and your special friend meet, you take him or her in your arms and embrace,
Your face is kissed again and again and again, and you look once more into the eyes of your trusting pet.
Then you cross the Rainbow Bridge together, never again to be separated...