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| < 16ga. Guns ~ Another 16ga owner joins the forum! (two 16ga shotguns) |
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Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:12 pm
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Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 8
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Just wanted to pop in and show you guys a couple of nice 16ga shotguns I've had since my grandfather gave them to me about 20 years ago.
The first is an A.H. Fox #3001xx which my grandfather bought back in the 1930's @ Lucky Baldwin's estate sale (the family who owned Baldwin Hills in Los Angeles)
Over the years, a little work was done to it by from what hear, some incredible gunsmiths. The first tweaks were done in the 1940's by a man by the name of Packmeyer. Later on in the 70's, my Father had a little work done to keep the gun up in perfect running shape which was done by Jewels Labanchnic, also a California smith if i recall correctly.
Here is the Fox:
And here is my 1932 Fabrique Nationale Belgian Browning 16ga semi-auto. All serials match and are in the ballpark of 277xx and the condition is quite good. A few nicks here and there since my father loved to take it hunting.
Here is a pic:
As for me, I still shoot the Fox on occasion and i'm planning on doing more shooting with the Browning as soon as i get the trigger repaired.
Anyways.... just wanted to stop by and let you guys know that there are still a few of use 16ga guys still out there...... even though it sucks to get ammunition!
Best regards,
-Andrew |
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| Posted:
Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:30 pm
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| Andrew nice iron. If that is an AE grade I have the twin to your Fox except mine has the single trigger. Mine is choked Skeet in and Skeet out with an extra set of 32 inch Trap barrels with forend. How are your barrels choked. |
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Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:34 pm
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Member
Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 161
Location: New Mexico
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Andrew,
Nice guns, and I'm glad you figured out what the A-5 needs.
Is the A-5 a short (2 9/16") chambered gun? It's earlier than one I have that is 2 9/16".
You can read how to tell if it is, or has been converted to 2 3/4" here:
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=79647
Regards, Slim |
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| Posted:
Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:12 pm
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Member
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 1732
Location: Central Missouri
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Hello Andrew :
Wonderful pair of ole girls that you have shared with us. Keep em shooting as long as you possibly can .
Welcome aboard nice to have you and your wonderful ole shooting irons .
Regards Charles |
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| Posted:
Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:52 am
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Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 398
Location: S Fl
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A pair of real beauties you have there.
However, the A-5 serial number would put it in 1923 production according to Shirley & Vanderlinden.
Unfortunately, there's a lot of misinformation out there concerning pre war Browning dates of production.
Pete |
_________________
" .......you have learned patience and stubbornness and concentration on what you really want at the expense of what is there to shoot. You have learned that man can as easily be debased as ennobled by a sport....." |
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| Posted:
Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:22 pm
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Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 8
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| Foursquare wrote: |
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A pair of real beauties you have there.
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Thank you! I've acquired quite a collection of older firearms over the years but these are my only two 16ga shotguns.
A few include:
- 1025th Colt Model 1911 .45 ACP ever issued to the U.S. NAVY (built in 1913)
- Model 1884 Trapdoor 45-70 (grandfather bought it for $25 in the 1940's.... I just found out a few months ago via the serial number that it was issued to Teddy Roosevelt's "Rough Riders".)
| Quote: |
| However, the A-5 serial number would put it in 1923 production according to Shirley & Vanderlinden.
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Oops.... my mistake. I get a little dyslexic at times.
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Unfortunately, there's a lot of misinformation out there concerning pre war Browning dates of production.
Pete
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Yea, thats what I hear. Plus i've read that many of the Belgian Browning's made during this period were quite customizable straight from the factory which is why we see so many little differences from shotgun to shotgun. Back in those days, many higher end firearms were custom fit to the buyer, kind of like you see in brands like Holland & Holland.
| Quote: |
Is the A-5 a short (2 9/16") chambered gun? It's earlier than one I have that is 2 9/16".
You can read how to tell if it is, or has been converted to 2 3/4" here:
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Yes, my 16ga is indeed a 2 3/4". The barrel sits further forward, the extractors move forward and aft, etc.
And as for the following quote I took from the link you just gave me....
.... let me tell EVERYONE here how bad you will get injured if the breech bolt somehow slams shut on your finger!!!!!
When I was cleaning out the breech of my 16ga Browning roughly 18 hours ago (before reading your link).... I somehow bumped something inside the breech which caused it to SLAM shut on my right pinkie finger. Not only was it like smashing your finger in a solid core door.... but the damned hooked extractor went right to the bone and got stuck like a fish hook just before it went all the way through.
I've never once hurt myself while cleaning a firearm up until yesterday, and I must have done thousands of extensive cleaning jobs over the years.
The ejector in the converted gun shown below is the same length, but has been modified with a slot so that the ejector can move forward and aft. If you are brave, you can make sure that the breech bolt stays open and reach in to see if the ejector moves freely forward and aft. If the bolt slams forward on your finger, you will be careful to never let it happen again. Some converted guns may be slotted, but the ejector may be corroded in place and need some cleaning before it will move.
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| Andrew nice iron. If that is an AE grade I have the twin to your Fox except mine has the single trigger. Mine is choked Skeet in and Skeet out with an extra set of 32 inch Trap barrels with forend. How are your barrels choked.
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Next to the serial on the underside near the extractors is stamped "B", which I assume is the grade. I'm quite the rookie when it comes to firearms made by Fox but I'd imagine it's one of the lower end models. My father recently gave me the shotgun a year ago and i just confirmed with him on the phone that the chokes are modified and full.
While I grew up hunting mostly duck, pheasant, quail, dove, and goose.... most of the time I'd carry my 20ga Ithaca made in the early 60's or for the smaller birds, I own a more recently made .410.
I'm more of a rifle and pistol shooter now days though. It takes just way too much time and gasoline to get out of Long Beach, CA in order to even shoot a firearm these days so I spend a lot of time shooting handguns @ Sharpshooters in Torrance, CA. And now that San Gabriel Valley Gun Club is gone, my semi-local spot to shoot rifles and skeet.... it's just a pain to go elsewhere. |
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| Posted:
Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:13 pm
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Next to the serial on the underside near the extractors is stamped "B", which I assume is the grade. I'm quite the rookie when it comes to firearms made by Fox but I'd imagine it's one of the lower end models. My father recently gave me the shotgun a year ago and i just confirmed with him on the phone that the chokes are modified and full.
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Wow a B grade Fox in what appears to be skeet configuration. While not as high of grade it is certainly a desirable gun. Does it have extractors or ejectors and what is the barrel length. Some close up photos would be nice as well.
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| Posted:
Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:23 pm
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Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Wickenburg, AZ
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Andrew LB wrote
" Later on in the 70's, my Father had a little work done to keep the gun up in perfect running shape which was done by Jewels Labanchnic, also a California smith if i recall correctly."
I have in my safe one of the last guns that Jules LaBantchni (that is the correct spelling, I still have his card) ever worked on . I had him rust blue an early Winchester model 1912 and he died about a month after I picked it up. If you never met him you missed a real character. He was a musician, engraver, stockmaker and gunsmith. He worked closely with many Hollywood stars and for a while shot with a group of actors that called themselves The Hollywood Skeeters (or something like that).
He died around 20 years ago. |
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There's just something about the desert----E. Abbey |
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