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Joined: 08 Oct 2005 Posts: 241

I went to a sportsman’s banquet this weekend and just would like to pass on a two humorous events. The first 16 gauge related. The shotgun raffle had 3 guns a BPS 10 gauge, a BPS 16 gauge and a 20 gauge youth 870. The 16 gauge was the last gun picked and I remarked at my table that I would have given the gun a happy home. Well the “expert” across the table remarked how it is so hard to get ammo for the gun, particularly “good grouse ammo”.

I explained that I buy cases at Dicks all the time and the Remington Game load works very well for grouse. The expert then proceeded to enter into humorous event #2. He stated that the Dicks cased ammo is mostly for clay target shooters and hunting ammo is really hard to find! He then proceeded to enlighten me that clay target ammo is just really substandard weak loads meant only to bust targets not gamebirds.

I made every effort to explain that any trap, skeet or sporting clays load really is the premium line of any ammo company and the ammo makes great grouse loads.

He proceeded to explain the time he shot some of that “Remington Trap Crap stuff” grouse hunting and it just pulled feathers but didn’t “knock’em down”.

Well I just politely excused myself and bought a round of beers for my group. On my return he kind of gave me that smart a** look, like I didn’t know what I was talking about. I didn’t bother to go any further, you can’t argue with that type.

I am always amazed at the lack of knowledge some hunters have.

Member Joined: 27 Nov 2005 Posts: 258 Location: Nordern MN

After working in a gunsmith/gun shop for about 6 months, my opinion of hunters as a demographic really went in the toilet and it ain't coming back. I would bet that at least 85% of the people who buy hunting licenses would fit the labels "slob" or "ignorant". It was really depressing after believing that hunters as a whole were ethical stewards of natural resources.

Your story illustrates why I can't stand being in groups of hunters anymore.

I send my dues straight to headquarters!

NR

PS, yeah, I still hunt, but only with close friends or more often, by myself.

Frankly, there is a huge difference between a hunter and some fool with a licence. for every knowledgeable, competant hunter I meet, there are about 10 fools, and another 10 in the making.

The problem stems from the fact that we have lost our hunting tradition and the lore that went with it soon after WWII, especially in the areas overrun by the suburbs. Hunting knowledge and ethics are a learned thing passed from mentor to child. I did not have this. My father was an urbanite who never understood why I loved being out in the woods and fields. My mother was glad to have me out from under her feet. In those days, kids were safer when out on their own.

I was lucky enough to have taken up hunting by the time I was nine. I did it on my own. I hunted with a bow until I moved to the south in my mid 20's. I was also an avid fisherman by age 8, so I'm one of those folks who seem to have been born with the yen to forage from the earth. I learned all I knew from books, magazines, and trial and error. I had the boundless energy and incessant curiosity of a happy, healthy child. One of the things I did not have to contend with were self professed experts like the fool at the dinner. Around my area, not many adults hunted or fished. most were into baseball and lawn cultivating.

I learned that to be successful, one had to learn to understand how the ecosystem being hunted in works. I learned to be quiet and observant. I learned that the best bait to fish with came from the waters being fished. I never went without bait after that, and I always caught fish. The bow forced me to learn to get close. I became a very efficient killer. I next learned that if I killed all the rabbits and pheasant I could find in the field next to my home, there were too few to hunt for the next season or that I'd not see pheasant in my yard in the spring. I learned that taking all the brook trout I could from the small brook that ran behind the old field meant that next year would be a slim one. I learned that it was best to find a lot of places to hunt and fish and take only some game from each place.

In time, as I got older, and began hunting with other folks, the truth about my first statement became apparent, i.e. buying a hunting or fishing licence does not make one a hunter or a fisherman. So it is with most things licenced by the state like driving or operating a boat. Lose the tradition of a thing and the knowledge gets lost with it. Make it as easy to do as buy a licence and any fool can do it. Then the fools take over.

Best learn to give way to a fool. Most of them do not realize what fools they are, so trying to correct them is a waste of time. Better to avoid them and keep to your own council. At the same time, please do not condemn the pastime because of these fools. Whan you do meet a true hunter, you will know it and appreciate the encounter all the more.

Guest

I learned most of hunting and fishing skills from my father where he taught me if you needed to utilize your observation skills to become proficient. He also told me that it was good that 90% of the hunters and fisherman didn't have a clue, and if they did, there wouldn't be enough game to go around.

While I shoot target to get good with my hunting shooting skills, the biggest thing that the serious target guys have going for them is the posting of a number. Posting that number is like golf in that you know specifically how you did on that day, the month or any time period. Because most hunters are so clueless especially in regards to their own hunting ability, they don't know how to discern how they did against their peers and if they didn't do well, where were their weak areas that needed to be shored up.

My thoughts for today....

Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 1460 Location: Eagle, Nebraska

I just came back from Cabelas to pick up an order. You want to discuss hunting idiots? There were two in the gun library that I would like to have escorted from premises to never return. Niether of these buffoons should be allowed weapons of any type.

I also ran into trouble opening morning of Dove season. I guess that is what I get going to a public area, but haven't had any trouble there for years. These idiots took over the field even though my brother and I were in first (learn to get up early) Then screwed me out of any possible shot at a dove, but that didn't stop any of them. About the second time I was sprayed with pellets I instructed those hunters on what was going to occur on the third time. I yelled at my brother and we left the field. Ruined our hunt. But I didn't go dove hunting to kick some idiot's ass. Or get killed.

We managed to find another field 45 minutes later and shared a field with two other hunters and managed to bag about 10 a piece before it got to hot.

Almost the same thing happened on a public wetland on Saturday the first day of teal season. I told my brother to drive on, we will go somewhere else, not fighting this again.

I am guessing most of these fools are people who didn't grow up hunting. Learned from Outdoor life, Field & Stream and the tv shows. Unfortuneately, these are the people who ruin hunting for everyone else, and that is why I never keep my mouth shut when I run into one in the field. Maybe, just maybe a word my sink in.

I've had about every experience you guys mentioned. Wonder why hunting gets such a bad rap. Add the sign shooters and the sky busters togeather and you'll know why. I've seen some of the most dangerous people toting a gun. It's made me question the right of just any one to own a firearm.

Guest

It was a few years ago when a reporter wanted a comment from Jim Zumbo regarding what he considered a "sporting" firearm and his answer probably reflected the views of almost everyone on this board. Unfortunately, a three letter organization treated him like a pariah and the poor guy went through some real hassles. As the quote goes, we have identified the enemy of the future, and it "us"....

Member Joined: 27 Nov 2005 Posts: 258 Location: Nordern MN

FWIW, no one asked Zumbo for his opinion. He wrote a blog on his website that lambasted AR-15s and the people that use them.

I don't have anything against AR-15s. They are just a gun. Not a pretty one like I like, but that's fine. I don't like black benellis either!

Everyone's afraid of the "European" hunting situation coming here, but I wonder if it would be that bad? It would weed out the jerks this thread is talking about. I spose the real danger would be politically . . . not to mention all the employees of DU/PF/NWTF/RMEF that would be out of a job when the banquet $ dried up!

Hootch wrote:
"I am guessing most of these fools are people who didn't grow up hunting. Learned from Outdoor life, Field & Stream and the tv shows. Unfortuneately, these are the people who ruin hunting for everyone else, and that is why I never keep my mouth shut when I run into one in the field. Maybe, just maybe a word my sink in."

Actually Hootch, most decent hunters can learn a bunch from both venues. I never missed an episode of "American Sportsman" or "Gadabout Gaddis, the Flying Fisherman" when I was a kid. I devoured every copy of Sports Afield, Field and Stream, and Outdoor Life I could get my hands on. The folks who wrote for these magazines back then were some of the finest sportsmen and outdoor writers that ever walked the planet. H.G. Tapply, Ted Trueblood, Jack O' Conner, and even Elmer Keith were some of my mentors. These folks drummed sportsmanship, safety, and woodcraft into my head with every page. They were not the product pushing commercially motivated types that some of the writers are today. These guys actully lived by what they wrote. Old Gadabout introduced me to Ted Williams at the old Boston Sportsman's show when I was 13. Ted got me started in flycasting. I've been at it ever since. There is not a season that goes by when I fail to thank both of them for the kindness and time they bestowed on a green kid.

Unfortunately for us, quite a few of today's "sports" do not read, watch, or listen enough. For some reason known only to them, most of these types think they were born with an inate knowledge of how it's done. Just ask them. They will tell you. They buy a licence after snoozing through a safety class (if we are lucky) and think that is all there is. Manners? That is for sissies. Many are just ignorant bullies and pukes not worth sharing a field or a shoreline with. It happens to all of us. Best to just move past them and find a quiet place to hunt or fish. then keep your mouth shut and enjoy it.

However, don't condemn the folks who are literate enough to actually read up on the things they don't understand yet. These folks will learn, because they want to. Try not to confuse inexperience with ignorance and arrogance. That is a big mistake.

Joined: 23 May 2005 Posts: 26 Location: McFarland, WI

If you want to hear some real intelligence go to your local club or afield with your favorite old 16 double and fire off some blackpowder shells.
Amazing what you will hear!

Member Joined: 27 Nov 2005 Posts: 258 Location: Nordern MN

16gg - I agree with everything you have posted on this thread and so I'm interested in what your thoughts are as far as getting new people decent information. How do we train up ethical sportsmen instead of the greedy, self centered, competitors that are resulting from modern media?

Outside of good one on one mentorship, I'm at a loss. The magazines, the videos, and TV shows are garbage.

NR

Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 1460 Location: Eagle, Nebraska

As a kid, I read every Outdoor Life, F&S, Sports Afield etc I could get my hands on. But I didn't learn HOW to hunt/fish from these magazines. Most of the articles are half hearted recycled ideas. I do not subscribe to them anymore. ( I do subscribe to many shooting mags, same probably can be said of them too)

I can sit and watch some of these outdoor shows and point out hundreds of errors. One from my home state showing a man shooting a deer and had his orange vest covered up by a coat so the deer wouldn't see him.

The turkey shows can be some of the worst. Shooting at gobblers out of range, shooting with other birds in line of fire, and I could go on.

They are just tv shows. Filming actual hunts are difficult and I understand that much of the video is staged. I just think they could be better. And there are some good shows. I guess one shouldn't generalize.

Member Joined: 07 Jan 2008 Posts: 348 Location: Missouri

I was at a banquet one time where a Game Warden was the guest speaker. When he declared that 95% of all hunters are criminals my table took offense - until we all remembered at least one time in our past when each of us had broken or bent the rules! Embarassed

Member Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 425 Location: Big D

Joined: 19 Apr 2008 Posts: 477

Its not just hunting its everything. This in the "Me, Me, Me, Now, Now, Now!" generation. Most of the "hunting" shows on TV are just shills for some product. They don't care about the chase, they just want to sit in a blind and whisper about that monster 160+ buck and then tell us how their super silent no sniff underwear made it all possible. If they don't kill something, they can't sell the product. So a good day in the field only ends in a kill. That's what too many of our young hunters see and expect. I, too, grew up on Outdoor Life and Jack O'Conner. Trouble is kids today can't read and wouldn't be interested in the type magazines we grew up on if they could. Solid mentoring is the only solution to this. My club works with young kids on the range and then takes them on a pheasant hunt during Kansas' early season youth hunt. All enjoy it. We can only hope that kind of introduction sticks.