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<  16ga. Guns  ~  Browning is making another run of 16 Ga. Citoris..........
Birdswatter
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:06 pm  Reply with quote
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Check this out! Bill Hanus just posted on his site that Browning is going to turn out some more Citoris in 16 gauge late 2006 Very Happy ....here's the link.

http://www.billhanusbirdguns.com/pagetwo.html

Maybe demand is starting to get results?!?

Wink
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hoashooter
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:33 pm  Reply with quote
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WOW Shocked Shocked Shocked I thought I would NEVER see a 30 in ported 16 ga Cool Cool Cool Cool Cool Cool Cool Cool Cool Cool Cool
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Dave Erickson
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 12:30 am  Reply with quote
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Those long-barreled sporting clays (525) models have some interesting implications for the 16 gauge world, Like-what if a high profile clay target shooter or two were to win some larger tournaments with these new Brownings. Would others follow? Would ammo companies notice? Food for thought...
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Mattkcc
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:13 am  Reply with quote



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I'm holding out for the $2000 Huglu's-not.
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TJC
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:22 pm  Reply with quote
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Might have to look into the 32" ported barrel for clays.

But I think I'll head down and take a look at the 525 before I send any deposit as I've never handled one.

What are the differences between it and the Citori Lightnings etc.?

Thanks for any opinions or help.

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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:56 am  Reply with quote
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The 525 guns have longer stocks by nearly an inch, and the stocks and forends are also more robustly profiled. The guns weigh an extra 1/3rd lb or more gauge to gauge. I don't see the point to them in 16 ga.

The beauty of the 16 Citori lightnig or superlight is its intrinsically lighter weight and great balance. When they start adding all the extra wood, the window dressing and a longer barrel of a target gun, it might as well be a 12.

If you want a bit of extra weight at the muzzle end, get a pair of the Briley extended choke tubes. They help tip the gun towards the muzzle for skeet, SC, and fun trap. However, they can be removed for hunting.

One other thing, I happen to know beyond a doubt there are many more Gran Lightning 16 Gauge Citori models than Mr Hanus claims and many more Grade VI guns too. The rarest are the Grade III guns, especially the Grade III original superlights. If anyone doubts this, they can contact the Browning historian via the Utah home office. He will send you a print out of all the models, their years of production, and how many of each were made in each year.

Also, Hanus asked Browning to take his surplus back and distribute it at the shot show, because he was having cash flow trouble and wasn't moving his stockat his inflated prices as quickly as he figured. Browning did so for a number of distributers who had overplayed their hand.

I'm betting Hanus is trying to pre-sell a bunch that is meant to be distributed among a number of dealers and distributers. I'd sit back and let the competition in the market place work for me as a buyer.

This is not the first time Mr. Hanus has skewed the facts, in his favor. His prices are skewed that way too. His long price is a lot to pay for an extra pair of choke tubes and some grease IMO. He is a huckster first rate and a real piece of work. However, He is right about the Citori 16 being the best all around upland gun ever.
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Birdswatter
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:56 pm  Reply with quote
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I didn't find Mr. Hanus to be that way at all. During my extended search for a new Gran Lightning in 28 gauge, I found exactly six nation-wide. They were all approximately $2500. Four had what I considered to be mediocre wood for a Gran, two were somewhat better than average. Two of the six sold during the week I was searching.

I contacted Browning three times during my search and they directed me to the distributors who had taken delivery of the Grans. That is how I found the six.

I conducted a similar search for Gran Lightnings in 16 gauge. I found two on Guns America with fairly nice wood. I received no replies to three inquiries I made on these two guns. I discovered absolutely no other 16 gauge Gran Lightnings until Mr. Hanus indicated that he had two. Considering that my research had revealed them to be even more difficult to find than the 28 gauge Gran, I believe they would command a price similar to the 28 gauge, $2500.

Mr. Hanus price was $2695. for a Gran with much better wood than most Gran Lightnings I have encountered. So if my calculations are correct, after deducting for two extra chokes, I paid approximately a $115. dollar premium for a gun with wood that satisfied my appreciation of nice walnut and is in short supply.

I am totally comfortable with that. Mr. Hanus was very informative and easy to deal with.

Does everyone like Gran Lightnings? No. Is everyone willing to pay a little extra to get the wood thay want? No. Iam, nuff said.

I'll be interested to see the upcoming release of these hidden 16 gauge Gran Lightnings. Keep me posted. Wink
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bustingclays
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:43 pm  Reply with quote
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Ok 16gg - you got my attention Surprised Shocked

Just so happens that I lucked into a grade III browning 16 with 26 inch barrels about 1.5 years ago - it is light and the wood is nice and I love the engraving and it shoots and handles really well - can you tell I like this gun.

My question - how does one tell if this is the rare "superlight"???

It has a narrow solid rib and invector chokes.

keep me posted....

I'll tell you what I stole this for if we can agree it is a rare gun Wink Twisted Evil

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Birdswatter
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:43 pm  Reply with quote
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Some more (hopefully) clarification. That last post made me curious, so I got on the phone with Browning and made some inquiries.

The Hicks run of 16 gauge guns in 2002 totaled 1650 guns in Grade I, Grade III, Grade VI and the Gran Lightning. Distribution was completed sometime in 2003.

There was another run of 16's as a Shotshow special in 2004. This run of 1000 pieces encompassed eight models.

I was told that they have no knowledge of any 16's being held back or returned for redistribution. That is straight from Browning so..........take it for what it's worth.
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Birdswatter
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:46 pm  Reply with quote
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One more note.....Up until very recently Cabelas had Grade III 16's listed as regular inventory in their gun room locations. I believe they are sold out now.


Last edited by Birdswatter on Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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kgb
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:43 pm  Reply with quote
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I spent the extra for pretty wood and bought one of those Grade III 16's this past year, used. The stock's hollowed a bit and overall is a pretty good weight with what I consider very good distribution. I got it for target shooting and wish it weighed more, but it might not have kept the forward balance it currently enjoys. 28" barrels and it came with Briley extended chokes. I recently weighed them compared to the factory chokes and a pair adds just a touch over 1oz difference to the gun. Of course, this is at the extreme end and I believe it makes a small but helpful effect.

Factory chokes are typically odd, but the Briley chokes, both extended and current production "made for Browning by Briley" versions, have the designated constrictions Briley shows on their site.

I think this gun (original box has a Cabela's sticker, I think it was made in 2002) has Grade III.V wood on it, maybe even IV! Not a fan of the gloss, but so it goes.

Let's see how the links work....

www.shootingsportsman.com/index.php/page/gallery/file_action/view/id/355/cid/0
www.shootingsportsman.com/index.php/page/gallery/file_action/view/id/356/cid/0

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Birdswatter
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:47 pm  Reply with quote
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That is very nice, you made a good choice.
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 6:06 am  Reply with quote
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Busting Clays, the Citori superlight is the model with the straight grip and a slight schnabel on the forend. It comes in both 26" and 28" barrels.
The very similar, read that identical, 24" model is called the upland. There were only a very few Grade III Superlights ever made.

As for Browning divulging inside info about how it markets its guns, don't be niave. They would not want those about to drop a bundle on these guns to thnk they were hard to sell. In fact, in certain regions, they are very hard to sell. I can locate at least 7 or 8 right now with asking prices of $1400-1475 that are still sitting on the rack.

And if anyone wants to fork over extra dough to Mr. Hanus for the same basic gun, that is their money and their business. Browning does not cater to him or any other dealer when it comes to basic models. Miroku makes them and Browning distributes them as they come in. So how can Mr. Hanus's Citoris somehow be better than those from Scheel's or any other dealer's. I seriously doubt he has anyone going around handpicking them.
He's a promoter and a good one. He's affable and likable like most promoters. Its in his best interest to be so. But he slings it high wide and deep like all promoters. That's his job and he does it well.
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bustingclays
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 6:39 am  Reply with quote
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16gg

My grade III 16 is NOT a superlight - standard grip and forend. Thanks for the info.

I am pleased though - got it for $1400 from a gentleman who shoots guns for about a month and then resells them. I have ended up with 1/2 dozen of this man's guns in the last 5-6 years - good deals all.

If Browning truly does another run of 16s, I would love a grade VI. I'm saving my pennies. I would go for the greyed receiver and 28 inch barrels.

Regarding promoters and dealers - I have thought about a straight grip sxs in 20 ga (nothing fancy) to fool around with (I know not 16 Confused ). I ended up with one of the BSA 20 ga Royal sxs (beretta style choke tubes) through a dealer our club uses for $750 (and change) last month. Same gun on Hanus www site - more than $1500. Don't know the man, just sayin deals can be had if you know what you want and shop around. Smile

Yes, I like the Royal - I ordered briley extended tubes for it and it shoots well. First straight grip gun I have ever owned.

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Birdswatter
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:02 am  Reply with quote
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16gg:

Quote:
“I can locate at least 7 or 8 right now with asking prices of $1400-1475 that are still sitting on the rack.”


7 or 8 what? Gran Lightnings? Please tell us where.

Quote:
“So how can Mr. Hanus's Citoris somehow be better than those from Scheel's or any other dealer's. I seriously doubt he has anyone going around handpicking them.”


Who said they were better? I stated that I found one (available from him) that met my standards, and bought it. I would have bought that gun anywhere I found it.

I’m just curious, looking at your post on another forum regarding the resale of Winchester wads in response to a seller who expressed his desire not to gouge someone and sold a quantity of wads at a very fair/low price......

Quote:
“I understand. However, if the market bears the price fairly, and don't forget, the customer sets the price he'll pay by bidding on Ebay auctions, why not capitalize and buy more cheaper wads with the extra money for your own shooting. If you run an honest, shill free auction, that is pure capitalism of the fairest kind. That way, you are not gouging anyone. but they were your wads to do as you wished with. I'm posting this bit of info for future sales for anyone to ponder.”
……………………… Question


Does pure capitalism apply to wads but not shotguns???? Question


Bustingclays……….I wouldn’t expect the Grade VI or the Gran Lightning to be available in the next run. When 16gg tells us where the 7 or 8 for $1400-$1475 are sitting, buy one there……… Wink
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