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<  16ga. Guns  ~  Used 1620 Merkel SxS--whats it worth?
Dave Erickson
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:22 pm  Reply with quote
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My 5lb 15 oz Merkel 1620 has eliminated any need for a 28 or 20 gauge.
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TJC
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 4:22 pm  Reply with quote
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Dave Erickson wrote:
My 5lb 15 oz Merkel 1620 has eliminated any need for a 28 or 20 gauge.


My Merkel 47E has done the same thing. I used to use my Win 101 Pidgeon all the time. It hasn't been out once this year.

The deals are out there. I picked up my 47E, still not completely sure what the difference between it and a 1620 is, for $2000. It was barely fired. It did have a problem with the CC on the receiver. Previous owner attempted to polish it with Flitz and removed about 60-65% of the CC. GSI is going to redo the gun's CC, all of it for a really good price.
The guy I bought it from had another, unfired, NIB for $3000. In today's world I thought these were pretty good prices.
The $3K one is $1k under msrp. The one I bought, even after getting it fixed will be at least $1600 under the msrp. Not bad.

All I know is I was happy to get the gun I did for the price. It has really knocked the heck out of the pheasants this year.

Only thing I was a bit disappointed on was not being able to put the Briley thin wall choke tubes in it. Not enough metal in the barrels. Sad

16gg, what it the place asking for that 1620?

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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:07 pm  Reply with quote
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Far as I can tell, the differences between a 47E and a 1620 are 1) weight (putting it on a 20ga frame undoubtedly required some extra machining): and 2) quality of wood--although this will vary. Also, not sure whether the 47E's come standard with a hard case. The 1620 does. Engraving, CC etc is the same on both.

Guy, you must have handled some heavy 28's if your Citori is lighter. Of course the 28 often suffers from the same problem as do some 16's: they're made on a larger frame size (always 20ga with a 28, unless it's on a true 28ga frame). They do that with a lot of the target 28's intentionally, because the target guys prefer the additional weight. But there are certainly 28's out there in the 5.5# range. And personally, since I'd want a 28 for birds and not clays, I wouldn't buy one if it were over 6#.
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TJC
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 4:08 pm  Reply with quote
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Larry,
The 47E didn't come with a hard case. But the Merkel site doesn't show a 16 ga 47E to compare the weight.
Are the 1620 and the 47E on different frames? I thought they were the same.
Everything else is the same according to their site. Oil finish wood, ejectors, lock up etc.

Are you telling me I have to buy a new Merkel now? Very Happy I'll tell me wife that you said I had to. It will be fine then.

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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:08 am  Reply with quote
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TJC, prior to the introduction of the 1620, all Merkel 16ga sxs were either on 16ga frames or else on 12ga frames--I think the former, but I wouldn't swear to it. The change they made with the 1620, as the model name indicates, was to put 16ga barrels on a 20ga frame. This reduced weight significantly, like by at least half a pound if not more. Otherwise, as far as I know, it's the same gun, same design, etc. Just greatly reduced weight plus a nice hard case.
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TJC
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 5:14 pm  Reply with quote
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OK, thanks. This 47E is on a 16 ga frame then because it's not a 12 ga.

Darn, now I'm going to have to buy a 1620. Very Happy I've never actually weighed this gun but it sure is a pleasure to carry and it knocks the heck of the pheasants.

Are the newer 1620's capable of using the Briley Thin Wall Choke tubes? My gun did not have enough metal to do it.

Thanks.

Now let's see, what did I want to sell off so I can order that 1620?

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Birdswatter
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:34 pm  Reply with quote
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TJC............
Here's a photo of my 1620 just as an example to help you with your decision....let me know what you'll be selling off! Wink
Cheers and Happy New Year!

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Dave Erickson
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:16 pm  Reply with quote
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Birdswatter, I see a pattern developing here. You seem to have ALL of the great wood on your guns! Wow! Your 1620 is stunning! Mine is the standard grade which is proabably a good thing based on the abuse mine gets going through the grouse cover. While my 1620 doesn't have the gorgeous marbled type wood, I still like the wood I got very much. It's more of a streaky, smokey stock with a caramel color.

Are you reloading 7/8 oz loads for your 1620 practice loads? Send me a PM if you'd like a great recipe for 7/8 oz loads that require no filler to get a good crimp. They pattern great and smash the clays as well as anything I've tried and have a very light recoil in a light gun.
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TJC
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:30 pm  Reply with quote
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Birdswatter,
Hard to tell by the photo. I don't think there is much difference. Gonna have to actually compare one to the other in person. I looking at probably about a 6 oz. difference or less in the weight. All I know is I love the one I have. It's been a pleasure this year in the field.

By the way, nice wood on that 1620. My 47E has mild grain with the oil stained finish. A little on the dark side which I like.

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Birdswatter
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:26 pm  Reply with quote
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TJC......
I certainly wouldn't worry about a 6oz difference if the gun is performing the way you want it to. I was just fishing to see what you would be parting with to finance a 1620! Laughing I shoot this 1620 alot, got it from another member here who has very good taste in 16's. I was amazed at first that this was an oil finish, appeared glossy enough to be the gloss finish like on the Brownings.

Dave.....I've been loading some real good 2.5" 7/8 loads that work well. Haven't got a good 2.75" load without filler. I'll PM you tomorrow to find out about it, thanks much.

Best regards to you both.
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Birdswatter
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:28 pm  Reply with quote
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PS-Dave,
I don't believe I've seen any Merkels with wood that I didn't find attractive. They must do a good selection job at the factory.
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 8:50 am  Reply with quote
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Larry Brown wrote:
Guy, you must have handled some heavy 28's if your Citori is lighter. Of course the 28 often suffers from the same problem as do some 16's: they're made on a larger frame size (always 20ga with a 28, unless it's on a true 28ga frame). They do that with a lot of the target 28's intentionally, because the target guys prefer the additional weight. But there are certainly 28's out there in the 5.5# range. And personally, since I'd want a 28 for birds and not clays, I wouldn't buy one if it were over 6#.


Larry, the only 28 ga guns I've ever owned have been either Miroku or Kodensa guns. All were built on their standard small gauge frames. Kodensa had a smaller frame for the Winchester 101 Pigeon lightweight O/U guns. Miroku had a baby frame 28 too for C Daly Both were too light for me. Any gun under 6-1/2 pounds is too light for me. I forgot about the 1620 being lighter. I'm probably better off with a 47 model which is a bit heavier at about 6-1/2 lbs I'm told. I'll look for a basic used model. In te mean time, that old AyA Matador still shoots darned good too, and there is no sign of any impending problems.I wonder why these guns were not though better of in their day.
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hunshatt
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:59 am  Reply with quote
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I've been looking at a 1620 at Kittery Trading Post up in Me. Used 95% they are asking 2900, and I'm just about ready to spring for it. (another reason to question the RBL I bought) Only question I have is after the 1620 on the rib it says No 3, not sure if it's part of a multi gun set or what, any idea's. Think the thing is right at 6lbs.
Tim
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:12 am  Reply with quote
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I've seen it Tim. Look at it very carefully. This gun is not nearly 95%. Its been shot and not wiped down as carefully as a case colored gun should be. Check around the edges of the contours, behind the trigger guard, and around the safety on the top tang. If they won't negoiate, let it sit. Tax time is coming in April. They will soften up then.

Kittery TP is one of my favorite places to shop, but you have to be discerning and knowledgeable. They are typical Yankees when they trade and will take advantage of any weakness they can. Its the way of things in N.E. They also get a lot of Boston yuppies who spend like drunken sailors on the latest outdoors fad. That can skew things a bit. By the way, they still have new Citori 16s and I'll bet they'll honor last summer's sales prices if you have a yen.
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hunshatt
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:11 am  Reply with quote
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Now I'm a Boston Yuppie??? Laughing But you do have the spending like a drunken sailor part right....Probabldy should go to the Ct show this weekend and throw my $$$ away on something cool instead.[/img]
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