16ga.com ~ View topic

Joined: 26 Dec 2005 Posts: 79 Location: Round Rock, TX

I just got a Mec 600jr and am waiting for a response to join the low-pressure group. Anyway, my wife is currently shooting skeet with a youth 870 20ga and doesn't like the recoil. She likes the recoil of my 16ga 870 using factory loads, but it's got a 28" barrel and is awkward for her to swing. The thinking was to get her a youth 870 in 16ga, but I think that it's going to have the same recoil as the 20ga if she uses factory loads because of the decreased mass. My question is--is it realistic to think that I can build her light enough skeet loads for the youth gun that will give it roughly the same recoil as shooting factory loads in my fullsize gun?

What she wants is a 26" barrel with a short stock, but the short barrel only comes in a Wingmaster, which is not feasible right now.

Hey bigric:

First - congratulations on getting your significant other out on the skeet range. Also for asking for help to keep her out there Very Happy

A couple of thoughts - I don't like much recoil either. One way I avoid this is to use light reloads. The reloader group can help with this.

You didn't mention whether you were reloading 20s for your spouse? I'm betting the factory loads are pretty punchy. You can find plenty of low speed/low prssure 20 ga load recipes - even some of 3/4 oz shot in most of the powder manufacturer manuals.

One other thing to consider is stock fit - the banging she is experiencing may be because it is a youth stock. The stock drop and length may cause the recoil to seem excessive - your stock, full sized, might be a proper fit and even though the recoil might be the same - she might not be feeling it the same.

Another thing to consider - how about a 28 gauge 870? I find (if I am not shooting 16s Wink

) that my next favorite gauge is 28. I have a couple of friends who have 28 ga 870s with fixed mod chokes that slay the skeet birds. You might find that she would not need a youth model if she had a 26 inch barrel.

good luck and keep us posted....

Joined: 26 Dec 2005 Posts: 79 Location: Round Rock, TX

I hadn't considered a 28 guage. Part of my consideration there would be ammo cost; I'll have to look into that angle.

She's shooting factory loads out of that youth 870 20ga. I have to buy her a gun of her own; she's been borrowing that gun from our nephew. I've got an 1100 LT-20 with a youth stock that I used as a kid, but she really enjoys the pump action, so that won't work. I'm in the process of locating a fullsize stock for that one so I can easily shoot it. The fullsize stock really doesn't work for her; she's got pretty short arms, so whatever I get her will have to have a youth stock. So many considerations...

Joined: 15 Dec 2005 Posts: 287 Location: missouri

Personally I would make life easier on myself and load for one gauge instead of loading the 16 for yourself and the 20 ga or 28 ga for your wife. There are plenty of light recoiling 7/8 and 3/4 oz loads for the 16 ga as well as the 20 ga (Ballistic Products has quite a few in their 16 ga manual).
Reloading components for the 20 ga are easier to come by than either the 16 or 28 ga.
That being said I stick with the 16's for the simple reason it makes a much better hunting shotgun than a 20 ga, I have had several 20 ga guns and was never to impressed, the 16 just gets the job done better, for me at least.

Joined: 26 Dec 2005 Posts: 79 Location: Round Rock, TX

That's where I was originally going with this--I wanted to get her a 16ga. That being said, should I expect some of the lighter-recoil 7/8 oz handloads in a youth (-1 lb) gun to feel about the same as a heavy factory load in my fullsize gun, since she's decided that's the amount of recoil she'll tolerate?

Joined: 15 Dec 2005 Posts: 287 Location: missouri

Although heavy powder charges do contribute to felt recoil, most of the shock you feel from any shotgun load is due to the weight of the shot charge more than anything else. One ounce factory loads feel very light in a 16 so 7/8 or 3/4 oz should not give much recoil at all with the right load combination.
I bought my wife a 20 ga 1100 youth model years ago, if she was 110 pounds soaking wet she was alot. She handled the gun quite well even with heavy hunting loads. 80% of how any person shoots is the fit and feel a shooter gets with a shotgun, if they are comfortable with how a gun conforms to them, the rest is easy.

Member Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 743

Dropping down from 1 oz factory loads to 7/8 oz reloads in the 16ga makes a HUGE difference! Remember, the factory loads are fairly hot because they have to make old autoloaders function properly. You don't have that concern with an 870, so you can go quite lite and I think your wife will find the recoil very mild. Be advised, however, that working up 7/8 oz reloads in a 16 does require a bit of tinkering. Usually, to get a good crimp with most hull/wad combos, you have to use some sort of filler. I use Puffed Wheat, 2 or 3 pieces on top of the shot. Doesn't add any weight, and it's cheap and easy. However, the guys I shoot with do kid me about feeding the birds with those loads.

I use 16 ga. 3/4oz. skeet loads almost exclusively for recreational shooting. They are the 28 ga equvilent and recoil even less. Plus, the ultra short shot string clobbers clays nicely.

My basic recipe is a Remington GL16 hull (the black one), 16.5 grains of Green Dot, an R16 wad with two 28. ga. 1/8th inch thick (.125) card wads inside the bottom of the shot cup. Add 3/4 oz of chilled #9 shot, crimp well and enjoy. Boy, that sounds almost good enough to drink. Wink

Actually, any of the new Remington 16ga. hulls with plastic base wad will do. The card wads come from Circle Fly and are bought very reasonably in 5000 count lots directly from them. There is another order for the R16 wad being put together now by Recob's Target Shop for some of the guys right here on this site. Green Dot is available almost anywhere. Any good primer will do. Buy the cheapest for the mostest here. They all go bang pretty well.

Your wife will love them. By the way, the 32 gauge or .45 cal 1/8" thick wad in a 7/8 oz 20 ga wad shotcup will do the same thing for you. 20 ga guns shoot 3/4 oz. of shot well too. but its heresy to proclaim that simple truth on this site so I now must go and perform the manditory hour of self flagellation. Embarassed

16GG

Member Joined: 23 Aug 2004 Posts: 98 Location: Ballwin, MO

Referring to the Hodgdon manual, they list several loads for 3/4 oz of shot in the 20 ga hull at 1150 fps that would have less recoil than 7/8 oz factory loads in the 20 ga. It would be cheaper to buy a 20 ga reloader than to buy another gun(I know that is heresy, but I have other excuses for buying another gun that work better!)

Most 20 ga guns do not come with recoil pads either, though I don't know about the youth models. If her gun doesn't have a recoil pad, adding one would definitely ease the recoil, especially with 3/4 oz reloads.

Most of the other powder companies have similiar loads listed on their web pages if you favor powders other than Hodgdon.

US, have you got your official 16 ga. society self flagellator with you? If not... go get it. You know the rules. And Happy New Year too. Laughing

Try using a sharp 5/8" arch punch to cut styrofoam wafers from grocery store meat trays. Adding 1 or 2 to bottom of SP16 wadcup adds virtually no weight and gives good crimp for 7/8 or smaller loads. No need to pay $125 +/- for case of new RP16's as there are plenty of the Sp16's available for less.

Joined: 26 Dec 2005 Posts: 79 Location: Round Rock, TX

Thanks for all of yalls advice. I'm still waiting for a response for joining the low-pressure group. But in the meantime, I grabbed some SP16 wads. I've noticed that a lot of people call for using 28ga 1/8" overshot cards at the bottom of the shot cup, but I've also seen 5/8" diameter filler mentioned. Since this is roughly the size of a 20ga shell, would a 20ga overshot cards work, or is there a particular reason that the 28ga is preferred?

Joined: 15 Dec 2005 Posts: 287 Location: missouri

The 20 ga card would work as an overshot card, the 28 ga is put in the bottom of the shotcup then the shot charge is put in the shotcup. This raises the shot column height, either way you are compensating for excess space in the hull to get a firm crimp. Some shooters say the overshot card will disrupt patterns, I don't really use them so I don't know.

Member Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 743

I've fooled with the card wads and I've cut the styrofoam discs. But getting lazier in my old age, I tried a tip someone else suggested and simply started dropping in Puffed Wheat on top of the shot. Works fine, adds no more weight than either the styrofoam or the card wads. Cheaper than the latter, easier than the former. You do have to use a couple more grains with the SP16 wad, which is actually a 1 1/8 oz wad, than you do with the R16, the WAA16, or the Gualandi/BP wads, all of which are designed for 1 oz loads.

Any 1/2 inch punch will work on styrofoam meat trays. A steel tube with a 1/2 inch inside dia. and a small wood or plastic plug will work. Just sharpen the edge with a grinder and a stone, and leave it a tad rough or serrated but sharp then cut out an oval mid way up to let the discs out. Just push and twist to slice out discs. Its simple and quick. You can do it while watching the boob tube.

Insert one or more discs into the bottom of the 16 ga wad shot cup. However, a thin 28ga or 1/2" card wad on top just under the shot will keep the shot from sticking in the foam.

I'm lazy too. I now buy the 1/8" thick wads for about 1 cents a piece shipped. At this price, my time is more valuable. I also like the simplicity. each wad displaces exactly 1/8 oz. of shot, so I don't have to figure anything out past this. The one or two cards slide right in top the shot cup as I'm inserting it into the wad guide. The wad ram does the rest as I'm seating the wad. Its too easy. I need things easy. I'm probably the boob they used to come up with the phrase "Boob tube". Wink