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<  16ga. Guns  ~  The LC Smith followed me home.....!
offhand35
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 4:15 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Posts: 191
Location: Western Connecticut

The last time I looked at a 16ga SxS was a Winchester model 21 with Briley tubes for $3800.....which was a tremendous price, but I just couldn't swing the purchase, thought the gun lined up perfectly to my eye the moment it met my shoulder! It was the shop owner's personal gun......
I had a little (maybe too much) time this afternoon, when I walked into the shop and asked if any new 16ga doubles had come in....he said "what price range....?", and he handed me an LC Smith Field with 26" bbls.....the tag said IC/Mod......I brought it up, and it lined up perfectly with my eyes closed!....very like the model 21 of 2 yrs ago.....I had no choice...it followed me home to live next to the Browning A-5.......

When I gauged the chokes, though, it checke out as IM/Full.......does anyone know....do these tend to run tight, or is this a specially choked gun... Of course I will have to pattern it to be sure...... THAT is part of the fun!!!!
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Dave Erickson
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 5:10 pm  Reply with quote
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Sounds like you found a very fine 16! Yes, new 16 gauges are fun! Let us know how it works out.
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Dave Miles
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 5:14 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 27 Jun 2005
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It's been my experience with the older SxS's that you really have to use a bore gauge. Measure the barrel bores about 8" - 10" in from the muzzle and then the last 4" or so of the bore and compare the measurements for a more accurate choke evaluation. Of course patterning the gun will be the most accurate. I only use the brass slip in choke gauges to give me a rough idea of what the choke might be.
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ruger77
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:59 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 24 Dec 2005
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Location: Virginia

Nice find!

I have the same model made in 1946 with 28” barrels, and it appears to be choked similarly to yours. I don’t have a bore gauge, but they measure .642” & .635” at the muzzle. IM / Full according to a choke table I found on the net. I don’t know how it patterns, but it shoots great. I had loads of fun at the clays range with it a couple of days ago, and scored right up there with the 12 gauges in my group.

If you haven’t found it already, www.lcsmith.org has a great deal of information about L.C. Smiths including S/N to year of manufacture.

Mine didn’t follow me home… it snuck up on me, tricked me, and forced me to take it home. I bought it when I was 19 years old thinking it was a 20ga. I didn’t know much about L.C. Smith, or that there was such a thing as a 16ga. I intended to trade it for a rifle I wanted, but made the mistake of shooting it first. Been in love ever since.

I’m sure you will enjoy your new SxS.

James
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offhand35
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 6:32 am  Reply with quote
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Location: Western Connecticut

Thanks, ruger77! I did find the LC Smith website after I first posted. My Field model was built in 1947.

I find it interesting that the standard chokes for the 26" bbl are listed as IC/MOD, yet I find the slip in choke gauge tells me that they are IM/FULL, just as you found yours.

However, the proof IS in the shooting .........
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16crazy
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 8:33 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 240

I had an LC Smith follow me home 13 years ago that is very much like yours. The gun is a 16 ga Field Feather weight with 26 inch barrels choked IC/M and the Hunter single trigger. The gun was made in 1940.
I have never measured the chokes but trust they are a bit tighter.
I have shot the gun alot at sporting clays with a bit of skeet added in but it really is my hunting gun.
The little jewel has taken South Dakota Pheasant and all upland game in Wisconsin. If I ever take the plunge and buy a bag of bismuth it will be for jump shooting duck with this gun.
Enjoy it.
16crazy
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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 9:34 am  Reply with quote
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Offhand, if I might ask, how much did it cost you to run home with that LC? They're nice guns, and one good thing about the later ones, like yours, is that they have factory 2 3/4" chambers. Until about 1940, Elsie 16's were still being made with 2 9/16" chambers.

Now that you're an Elsie owner, you'll probably want to get COL Brophy's book on those guns. And the diagrams of the various gauges and respective bore diameters, included in Brophy's book, answers your choke question. Standard 16ga bore diameter ranges from .662 for British guns to the ,664-.667 range for American guns. (O'Connor's "Shotgun Book" indicates that Remington 16's had a BD of .673!) Per Brophy, your Elsie's bores are .650, which are extremely tight. If you have one of the Galazan gauges, it's based on a standard bore diameter of about .665, in line with most American guns--but .015 larger than your Elsie's bores. And if you subtract that factor of .015 from the IM/F reading you're getting, it will take you down to about IC/M, which is what the gun should be.

Enjoy that gun! I saw an extremely nice one at a gun show recently, tagged at $1500. I thought that was a bit high, but given what's been happening to old American doubles of late--especially ones with a lot of condition--it probably wasn't all that much out of line.
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offhand35
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:22 am  Reply with quote
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Thanks for the replies, everyone!
Larry, it sounds like I will be looking for a copy of that L C Smith book!
I will have to load up some shells using BP's SG16 and the R16's to see which yield the more open patterns......If they are too tight, I could make some X-Treme spreader loads with 1 oz lead using SP16 wads......
HOWEVER, condsidering the info re: the choke diameters relative to the bore, I may find myself quite happy as it is.....as this is all talk and contemplation prior to actually shooting....
More work ups for the coming year. I had just established a great 2 9/16" load for my A-5.

Larry, I paid $1400 for the L C Smith. I made the purchase on the basis of gun fit [like it was custom built....], apparent condition, and relationship with this dealer as well as his reputation. After the 2nd day home, I began to wonder if I did pay too much. After searching 2 different auction sites plus GunsAmerica on line, I have concluded that if I did, it wasn't by much. The receiver and sidplate case colors are around 90-95%, with hunting and handling marks on the wood and bbls that are normal for a 58 year old gun. The opening lever is a little left of center, but it took 58 years for it to get there. The way this action snaps closed perfectly is just amazing to me.

I may get to blast some clays this afternoon.........The range where I do my patterning is closed til Spring.....
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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:00 pm  Reply with quote
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I'd say that was a fair price for a gun in the condition you describe. What new 16 today could you get for $1400? Yes, there are a couple nice OU's out there for that money (Citori and FAIR), but not any sxs like an Elsie. And you can shoot anything in that gun that you could shoot in any new 16.
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laxcoach
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:10 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Posts: 77
Location: Lynchburg, VA

NO STEEL SHOT, and low pressure loads because of the inheirent weakness of the head of the stock !
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mod11rem
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:49 am  Reply with quote
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What was it Duke E. used to say about music "if it sounds good, it is good". Same with guns, if it feels good and shoots like it should, it is good. No matter the price or how fancy it looks. It's like a good car deal, "any car deal is a good one, if both parties are happy". sounds like you got a real keeper in your new L.C. forget about the chokes, pattern it out and find a load that puts 'em where you want 'em. Most of the time, when any of us miss, it ain't the gun, it's the gunner. Enjoy. mod11rem

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If I can't throw lead from a 16, I'd just as soon throw rocks.
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