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< 16ga. Ammunition & Reloading ~ BPI Trap Commander 16ga wad |
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Posted:
Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:49 pm
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Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Posts: 64
Location: UK
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I've just imported a bag of these (at ruinous expense...), and I have no load data whatsoever; the only data for plastic wads I've got is for SP16s.
What I'd like to ask is; if I replace the SP16 with the BPI and reduce the load by 1 1/2 grains of powder, is that a safe starting point for building a load? Please forgive me if it's a dumb question
I'm not happy with the SP16s because they seem to be a sloppy fit in the case. I get a lot of unburnt powder. Patterns are good but velocity appears to be poor and not all my kills are clean. So instead I use fiber wads, which work extremely well for me. However, rather than give up on plastics altogether, I thought it'd be worth trying a different wad for a 'top of the range' load for next year's pheasant season
I use Fiocchi and Cheddite straight-wall tubes, Herco or Unique. and CCI209 or Remington STS primers.
Any guidance gratefully received. |
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Posted:
Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:21 pm
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Member
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 1734
Location: Central Missouri
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Hello Lemming :
I will scan BPI's data and send you a copy over the weekend , Ben and I run test on those wads to the tune of 5K and we were not too happy with them , performance was much better with the 1618 or 1621 .
Ben and I are on our last Gualandi wads now to the tune of 45K from here on out I will now have the exact wad I wanted in the first place .
Regards Charles |
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Posted:
Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:57 pm
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Lemming,
Where are you getting the data from? What is the exact data for this load?
Unique and Herco will leave some debris in the barrel as they are not very clean burning.
THe SP16 wad is not the cause of the unburnt powder. The sloppy fit might be the cause of powder migration, but I haven't seen it happen with Unique and Herco in the cases you have mentioned.
You really are just guessing about backing off powder charges and if the pressures are already too low with the SP16, which might be the cause of the unburnt powder(low pressure), backing off the powder charge won't help at all. A different plastic wad isn't going to change much to be honest.
I am gonna guess and say that you are mixing and matching components here, which maybe the cause of your heartburn. Also with the powders you have mentioned, those 2 primers aren't exactly top notch selections, especially with Herco.
I reccomend that you find a better source for data and/or stop mixing and matching components and cases. Shotshells are not like metallic cartrdges where backing off powder charges is an acceptable practice. Primer switching messes up more loads than guys realise, because then you get comments like "this isn't a good cold weather load." Trust me it isn't a good warm weather load either.
BTW, BPI loading data isn't worth the paper it is printed on. |
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Posted:
Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:13 am
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Member
Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 220
Location: Central Florida
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The low pressure group has loads for the TC-16 wad. It's only $20.00 to join. |
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Posted:
Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:48 am
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Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 596
Location: 17603
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"CCI209 or Remington STS primers aren't exactly top notch selections, especially with Herco. "
Mark,
Hotter primers with the slower powders? I've been using Rio G-600's to good effect with Herco and Unique. Been treating them as ~ equivalent to the Mag primers, judging from Armbrust's comparison data. The Fiochi 616's seem to be closer to a "standard" Win 209.
I realise that without test data, this is purely speculative, but your opinion appreciated.
Cheers,
R*2 |
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Posted:
Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:56 am
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Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 224
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dogchaser37 wrote: |
BTW, BPI loading data isn't worth the paper it is printed on.
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I second this opinion about BPI. There loads are junk, and usually are much "hotter" than listed. Use at your own risk.
I have also not had great patterns with the Z-16 trap commander. The SG-16 (sporting 16 wad) seems to make a better shooting wad IMO. |
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Posted:
Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:47 pm
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Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Posts: 64
Location: UK
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Charles -
I'd be very grateful for that data. Many thanks
Dogchaser -
I'm pitifully short on 16ga data. Apart from Alliant's online load info, all I've got is a Claygame Imports manual from 1992 (loads developed here in the UK) and the results of my own experiments.
Same goes for choice of components. I use Herco and Unique powders and CCI / Rem primers because that's all I can get. Same reason I use home-made shot and home-made fiber wads.
You're darned right I'm just guessing about backing off the powder (which is why I'm asking you guys; you don't need to guess, because you have access to genuine data...) I figure that if I start my loads low and gradually work them up a half grain at a time, I won't blow myself up. |
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Posted:
Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:22 pm
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Lemming,
I didn't realize that you can't get some of the hotter primers,
As a rule of thumb, to get really nice consistent loads with medium to slow burn powders you try to use the hotter primers. Even a Winchester 209 would be a good choice but Federal 209A, Fiocchi 616 or CCI209M are the best choices.
I have a few loads with the components you list, but I don't know any specifics of your load. If you tell me more, I can help you more, with tested data.
R*2
Slower burning powders love hot primers. Fiocchi 616 primers might seem on a chart to be a Win 209 equivalent, but they usually act hotter. |
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Posted:
Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:47 pm
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Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 596
Location: 17603
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"Slower burning powders love hot primers. Fiocchi 616 primers might seem on a chart to be a Win 209 equivalent, but they usually act hotter."
Thanks! Confirms my opinion and experience, the F616's, while pretty much the same price around here as the Rio's, have a very hard primer cup, while the Rio is one of the softest, helps sometimes with my elderly collection. Never had a primer hit problem with a Rio.
Cheers,
R*2 |
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Posted:
Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:26 pm
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I live in Connecticut, and I wish I could find Fiocchi primers in my area. I have about 3,000 new 16 gauge Fiocchi hulls, that measure 2 5/8 inches, they are perfect for my old Model 12.
The original CCI 209 would fit tight in these hulls but now that CCI/Alliant/Federal have changed them only Fiocchi primers seem to fit tight. I have the primer pocket tool, but that is a PITA for a large number of hulls, besides I have a fair amount of reloading data for the Fiocchi primer. |
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Posted:
Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:42 pm
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Member
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 425
Location: Maine
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dogchaser37 wrote: |
I live in Connecticut, and I wish I could find Fiocchi primers in my area.
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I've bought them online; buying 4 sleeves with shipping and hazmat, still cheaper than buying domestic primers from a local supplier.
http://www.recobstargetshop.com/browse.cfm/2,218.html |
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Posted:
Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:03 pm
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Pumpgun,
Thanks for the website, I was trying to avoid shipping and Hazmat, but I might have to bite the bullet. |
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Posted:
Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:13 pm
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Member
Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 115
Location: Michigan
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I use the Fiocchi Hulls and BPI plastic wads and have way too much space left in the hull after powder, wad and shot are in hull. I believe that I read somewhere that 20 ga felt wads can be used as an over powder wad to take up the extra space?
Keith Rich |
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Posted:
Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:12 am
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Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1460
Location: Eagle, Nebraska
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Keith, have the same issue, maybe just that I like the longshot powder which seems to not take up much space. I use Universal or other powders shooting clays in my back yard, then cut them down to 2.5" for hunting season. This allows me to load shells, then I can use any 16 in my arsenal!! Cut that hull down and using most of my hunting loads come out just right without any filler. |
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Posted:
Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:03 am
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Member
Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 115
Location: Michigan
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Hootch - I appreciate the advice, but my 16 ga accepts 2 3/4" shells and I would rather not cut down my hulls. Will the 20 ga felt wads make a good powder seal? They make the spacing inside the hulls perfect.
Keith |
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