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timberdoodle16
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:56 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 23

20 years ago I had an Ithaca 37 full choke 16 that threw a great Winchester slug. Managed to harvest a couple of deer with it too. Even some late season grouse. Sorry I ever sold it! As far as the 3" goes, I have been intrigued about the possiblity of using one of my 16s to take a spring gobbler.
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woodcock
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:34 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 28 Oct 2005
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Location: Louisiana

Several posts ago I indicated that I would document my post regarding a 3" 16 gauge Parker.
The information came from a paperback titled John Olson's Book of the Shotgun. pp.148/149 states that a fellow named Bill Amestoy owned a 16ga. Parker stamped to indicate 3" chambers as well as half a case of 3'' 16ga. shells which he showed to the author---------
I've already commented as to my opinion of a 3" 16ga.
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bigric
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:35 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 79
Location: Round Rock, TX

To answer the question about 16ga production buckshot--my gun is currently loaded with off-the-shelf Winchester buckshot that I purchased at the local Academy. I also have Federal 16ga hollowpoint slugs on the ammo shelf. They make a much larger hole in the backerboard at the rifle range than my .270 Very Happy
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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:16 am  Reply with quote
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You don't need a 3" 16 to kill a gobbler. If you have a fairly heavy 16 and don't mind recoil, pick up some of the Federal Premiums in 1 1/4 oz, 6's or 4's. I killed a 25# Iowa gobbler with that load out of an old Stevens 16.
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timberdoodle16
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:05 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 23

Thanks Larry, I'll try them.
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Steve Smith
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:33 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 29
Location: Traverse City, MI

Wolfchief,

Concerning your post back on page 1 of this thread, I shot Nash's second Becker magnum, not the original Bo-Whoop, the name given to it by Hal Sheldon, I think, who wrote the Tranquillity (spelling's correct) series of books because of the sound it made when Nash touched it off. That gun was lost back in the 1940s and recently apparently resurfaced in a hock shop and someone bought it for about $350K.

After it was lost, some of Nash's friends and admirers got togther and had Becker make him a replacement gun.

I had that second gun for a week or so about 15 years back when I published Nash's autobiography and I needed it for the dustjacket photo. The temptation was too much, and I scrounged up some of those copper-plated Super-X loads he used in the gun, tacked up some paper, stepped off 40 yards and cut loose. The pattern was so open you could have ridden a unicycle through it -- the choke was completely shot out of it. I thought I'd missed the paper, so I tried again with the same result.

The gun had no safety as Nash thought if you knew how to handle a shotgun safely, those things just got in the way. It weighed about 10 pounds. Still kicked because of the drop; Nash had a face like a Kentucky mule and evidently needed a lot of drop at the comb.

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Wolfchief
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:58 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 782
Location: Indiana

Steve:
As per the George Bird Evans book "The Best of Nash Buckingham", the loss of the first Becker magnum occurred on December 1, 1948. Nash and a friend, Cliff Green, were hunting at the Section 16 Duck Club near Clarendon, Arkansas. They left their car on the highway due to mud in the Club's lane; after the hunt they walked back to the vehicle and once there, were engaged in conversation by two game wardens who checked their licenses. There was a lot of talk, and, in the ensuing conversation, Nash laid the cased gun on the car's fender and forgot it. They later drove to Clarendon before missing Nash's gun. Though they and others searched high and low, the Becker didn't turn up until much later, as you state.

The loss of this, Buckingham's favorite shotgun, was such a blow to him that in 1950, a retired U.S. Army engineer, George Warner, long an admirer of Nash's stories, contacted friends of Nash's and stated he would contribute to having a second Burt Becker magnum made. Becker was duly contracted to do this, and records reflect that the "aging gunsmith" made the second gun in the period from July 12 to August 5, 1950---mind you, "making, checkering, and finishing the stock, engraving the action and boring the tubes" in that timeframe ! The cost? A measly $500......it was obviously a different age.....I first read the story 20 years ago, and I still find it fascinating.....

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SageRat
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:15 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 91

I know a gentleman that owns a 3" model 21 factory marked.
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16crazy
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:18 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 240

Sagarat
Is that a 16 gauge marked 3"?
16 crazy
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SageRat
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 7:06 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 91

Yes, it is marked on the barrels. That is not the only one I have heard of, as there was some anticipatiion of bringing out factory cartridges. The Model 21 book has something on this, if memory serves me correctly.
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16crazy
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 8:48 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 240

I was firing through some old Shooting Sportsman looking for something else when I came across this in the Nov/Dec 97 issue.

On page 19 Holland and Holland has an ad and one of the guns is a 16 bore Purdy with 2 sets of barrels. #1 barrel is 28" with 21/2 inch chambers but #2 barrel is 32" with 3 inch chambers. The add doesn't say when the gun was made but does call it an unusual gun with a removeable weight system for balance.

I have not heard of any other 3 inch English 16's.

16crazy
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XVIgauge
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 9:44 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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Location: Central Florida

We do not need a 3 inch 16 gauge, and I hope it never comes about.
Michael McIntosh, in his book, Shotguns and Shooting, upon predicting the death of the 16 (though since then I would think that even Michael would agree that the 16 is making a come back) said, regarding the thought of a 16 gauge 3 inch shell, "...let her die with dignity."
The introduction of a 3 inch 16 would usurp some of that dignity. Tradition and dignity is what endears all of us on this very forum to the 16 (along with its great performance of course).
I'm not so sure that we even need a 3 inch 20 or a 3 inch 12 for that matter. They have never needed them in Europe, why do we need them here?
XVI

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16crazy
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 6:15 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 240

XVI,
I agree 100% with the lack of need for a 16 gauge in 3 inch. I thought it was unique that Purdy of all people made one and being that it was sold by Holland and Holland it must be legit.
This in the light of the debate concerning when and if the 16 gauge 3" was ever made was of interest to me and I suspect a few other 16 gauge scholars.
16crazy
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mod11rem
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:13 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 117
Location: Jonesboro, AR

I don't know why I want to weigh in here. I agree with you all that a 3" 16 is unnecessary and it is a tribute to cooler heads that the fleeting notion never caught on. In history in America, it seems that bigger was always thought of as better. It is doubtful that a really good argument could be made for the 3" 12 ga. and certainly there is no excuse for the 3.5". If you want a 10 guage, go buy one. It is also interesting that game laws spelled the death knell for anything bigger that a 10 ga. and that the demise of market hunting pretty much killed the 10 ga with that.

Just think about the matter. If you've got a wad of well formed shot travelling between 11-1200 fps and it hits a little ol bird, chances are you're going to knock him down and kill him. It really doesn't matter what kind or size of tube it is flung out of. The trick is to make that bird (clay or feathered) run into that shot string, every time. There has to be enough of that shot to do the job, so some of the really small guages like the 410 or 28 on really big birds certainly aren't as effective, every time. However, I killed my first duck at the age of 11 with a Stevens SS 410. At that time I was so quick, I dusted the tailfeathers on his buddy too. My son has killed every duck he ever shot with a 20 ga (2 3/4 steel) and I take home as many ducks as anyone else using my Mod 11 16 with No. 2 steel. These redneck duck hunters around here think they can shoot higher, farther, and faster with their 12 3.5" mags and they can. However, I call better, hide better, and end up shooting closer birds better, every time. No question some of the non-toxic shot is good, but it is just allowing us not to have to adjust our shooting and re-live the lead shot days. It ain't the gun, or the shell... with most minor allowances for either, it's the shooter, every time.

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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:36 am  Reply with quote
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Location: massachusetts

My friend, you can thank Olin Corp., one of the main military/industrial complex players and its government stooges for the 3" inch magnum, the even stupider 3-1/2 inch mag, steel shot, and all the bull shit government laws and regulations that support its abortive, unnecessary life. You can thank corporate greed.

You can thank all the twisted, two faced, lying bastards who would like to see waterfowling gone and the wetlands turned into condos and golf courses and all the government stooges who support them too with bull shit lead shot laws, hunting restrictions on government land, and anti firearms laws.

There are two things I have come to realize with the years. First, nothing happens by accident or mistake when it happens by legislation. Second, very little legislation is designed, enacted, funded, enforced, or implemented in a way to fulfill its stated purpose i. e., to free us from evil-- just the opposite. These folks who run things ain't stupid. They would just like you to think so. It makes it easier for them to run things. That is the main aim of government--and its main danger.

My best advice is that which T Jefferson proposed two centuries ago. Love your country, dispise your government and watch its every move. Also, the price of freedom is eternal vigilence. He knew the truth. He lived and worked among the bastards. Things haven't changed much with most government types. So did Dwight D Eisenhower. He was both truthful and very intelligent--probably the last decent president we ever had. He said to beware of the military/industrial complex as he retired back to private life. he wasn't joking. We didn't listen. We are paying the price now and have been for some time. We all work for pharoah now, like it or not. 16GG
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