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thunderwolf
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:14 pm  Reply with quote
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Location: Northern Wisconsin

Does anyone have experience using a 20 ga. wad, such as the Winchester orange duster wad, in a tapered 16 ga. shell, such as a Remington, in order to avoid needing a filler wad when shooting 7/8 oz. loads?
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mike campbell
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:53 pm  Reply with quote
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Rolling Eyes


Last edited by mike campbell on Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ajaxfjr
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:17 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 28 Jan 2007
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i use the orange duster, it works great for 7/8 oz in the rem black hull.
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:22 am  Reply with quote
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Actually, the Federal 20S1 wad has a skirt diameter as big as any 20 ga wad I've measured. It also has a very deep hemispherical cup on the bottom. It obturates very well. The diameter and the bottom cup form were the reasons I tried it in an RGL hull. It works extremely well as a substitute.
.
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Twice Barrel
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:14 am  Reply with quote
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16gaugeguy wrote:
Actually, the Federal 20S1 wad has a skirt diameter as big as any 20 ga wad I've measured. It also has a very deep hemispherical cup on the bottom. It obturates very well. The diameter and the bottom cup form were the reasons I tried it in an RGL hull. It works extremely well as a substitute.
.


16gg the only problem with the Federal 20S1 wad is that it is designed for a 1 ounce load and you will still need a filler in order to get a proper crimp on 7/8th ounce loads.
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:54 am  Reply with quote
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Twice Barrel wrote:
16gaugeguy wrote:
Actually, the Federal 20S1 wad has a skirt diameter as big as any 20 ga wad I've measured. It also has a very deep hemispherical cup on the bottom. It obturates very well. The diameter and the bottom cup form were the reasons I tried it in an RGL hull. It works extremely well as a substitute.
.


16gg the only problem with the Federal 20S1 wad is that it is designed for a 1 ounce load and you will still need a filler in order to get a proper crimp on 7/8th ounce loads.


TB, I think if you check existing data out, you might find the 20S1 is the wad designed for loading 7/8 ounce skeet loads in the Federal 20 gauge target hulls. However, it could have some limited use for 1 ounce loads as well.

I was able to load 7/8 ounce 16 gauge loads with it in the RGL hull without filler wads by carefully adjusting my crimp starter and crimping dies. 3/4 ounce loads did require two 28 gauge card wads in the cup to get good crimps. However, roomier 16 ga hulls probabvly would require the use of fillers.

Thankfully, the increased supply of suitable 16 ga wads we've enjoyed in the last couple of years has pretty much eliminated the need to sub out 20 gauge wads for 16 gauge reloading. Charles's new Downrange wad will end the required use of fillers for most subgauge 16 ga loads as well. Things have improved greatly in a very short time thanks to the efforts of some of the folks on this site. the existance of the site itself has also been a big positive factor in the 16 gauge comeback. Works for me. Very Happy
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Twice Barrel
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:04 am  Reply with quote
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16gaugeguy wrote:
Twice Barrel wrote:
16gaugeguy wrote:
Actually, the Federal 20S1 wad has a skirt diameter as big as any 20 ga wad I've measured. It also has a very deep hemispherical cup on the bottom. It obturates very well. The diameter and the bottom cup form were the reasons I tried it in an RGL hull. It works extremely well as a substitute.
.


16gg the only problem with the Federal 20S1 wad is that it is designed for a 1 ounce load and you will still need a filler in order to get a proper crimp on 7/8th ounce loads.


TB, I think if you check existing data out, you might find the 20S1 is the wad designed for loading 7/8 ounce skeet loads in the Federal 20 gauge target hulls. However, it could have some limited use for 1 ounce loads as well.

I was able to load 7/8 ounce 16 gauge loads with it in the RGL hull without filler wads by carefully adjusting my crimp starter and crimping dies. 3/4 ounce loads did require two 28 gauge card wads in the cup to get good crimps. However, roomier 16 ga hulls probabvly would require the use of fillers.



Federal lists the 20S1 wad as a 1 ounce and 7/8th ounce wad. Obviously if the wad will accommodate a 1 ounce load in a 20 gauge hull it will accommodate a 1 ounce load in a 16 gauge hull and to do so it will have excess internal capacity when used for a lighter shot charge. You are also aware that approximately 1/8th inches of filler is required to displace 1/8th ounce of shot in the 16 gauge wad. You have confirmed this in your statement that in order to load a 3/4 ounce shot charge you were required to use 2 1/8th inch 28 gauge filler wads in order to obtain a suitable crimp. I think you probably could fiddle around with your seating die to obtain a crimp that would hold the shot in but it would either be extremely dished or would be excessively deep which would have the effect of increasing chamber pressure (see Tom Armbrust article of affects of crimp depth on chamber pressure).
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:02 pm  Reply with quote
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I did use fillers for the 3/4 ounce load. However, the 20 ga shot cup petals also spread out more in a 16 gauge hull. I did not need fillers for the 7/8 ounce load. All I needed to do was adjust the crimp starter and crimp dies. I did not use the wad for 1 ounce loads, but I'd wager I could have managed to. So I'd have to say the 20S1 wad used in a 20 gauge hull splits the difference between 7/8 and 1 ounce based on the hull it is used in and the required powder charge.

You will find the same thing is true for a number of the older 20 gauge one piece wad designs for polyformed hulls before the advent of compression formed hulls.

Anyway, the problem we are discussing in regard to 16 gauge reloading has become extinct. We do not need to resort to 20 gauge wads anymore.Very Happy
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Twice Barrel
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:57 pm  Reply with quote
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16gaugeguy wrote:


Anyway, the problem we are discussing in regard to 16 gauge reloading has become extinct. We do not need to resort to 20 gauge wads anymore.Very Happy


Then why did you feel compelled to jump in with your unnecessary post?
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:23 am  Reply with quote
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That should be obvious. I did so to offer Thunderwolf an alternative 20 gauge wad choice that will work very well for his purpose. It worked very for me in the hull he is asking about.

Some of us also understand that the new Downrange 16 ga subload wad will be available soon. Having to resort to 20 gauge wads for 7/8 ounce 16 ga loads will be a thing of the past in a short time. Again, useful information to have.

So why are you asking why TB?
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:02 pm  Reply with quote
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Strange... no answer. Perhaps some help is needed. Pick one of the following TB.

A) I don't have a clue.

B) I'm off my meds again.

C) I'm not on meds but need to be.

D) My spirit has been taken over by Hitler's ghost. I plan to conquer the world starting with this web site.

E) All of the above.

F) None of the above.

G) What question?

Laughing Laughing Laughing . Razz Razz Razz .
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Twice Barrel
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:41 pm  Reply with quote
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16gaugeguy wrote:
Strange... no answer. Perhaps some help is needed. Pick one of the following TB.

A) I don't have a clue.

B) I'm off my meds again.

C) I'm not on meds but need to be.

D) My spirit has been taken over by Hitler's ghost. I plan to conquer the world starting with this web site.

E) All of the above.

F) None of the above.

G) What question?

Laughing Laughing Laughing . Razz Razz Razz .


I suppose I could respond with something witty like "eat shit and die" but I wont. Instead I will just ignore posts from an ignorant little piss ant such as yourself. Consider yourself ignored.
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:44 am  Reply with quote
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Works for me. Very Happy
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RWG
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:01 pm  Reply with quote
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ajaxfjr wrote:
i use the orange duster, it works great for 7/8 oz in the rem black hull.


Me too. The orange duster works better than the WAA20 in the Remington hull. All we can do is speculate that the plastic used by downrange is more malleable than the WAA20 allowing it to seal a 16 ga. bore better.


Last edited by RWG on Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dogchaser37
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:16 pm  Reply with quote
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????

The WAA16 wad seals the 16 ga bore just fine. I have used a least 5 cases and am working on another 2 cases. (Yes they are the original Winchester WAA16 wad, not a clone.) Most have been with Remington cases and Universal powder, and they are used in semi autos.

While it is true that the WAA16 wad does have powder migration issues with certain powders in the straight wall cases, it does NOT have a bore seal problem.

If we stop loading the 16 gauge down, using half baked and half tested loads, and stop switching components, all of these so called "problems" go away.
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