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Flytier
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:31 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 87
Location: Middle TN

Hello. I am relatively new to the board and shotshell reloading as well. Can someone out there explain to me the process and advantages of roll crimping shotshells. I assume that I need unused shells to do this, but do I need to trim them back any?

Thanks in advance and any info will be greatly appreciated.

flytier
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hoashooter
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:42 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 3436
Location: Illinois

The roll crimp is-well-rolled over a card to contain the components.This can be done with a device chucked in a drill or a handturned crimper.The downside is time.You need a bunch.Most folks using a roll crimp are using it for specialized field loads.NO high volume target shooter uses them.They are ballistically more uniform---no bad,bulged or crimp with missing segments Embarassed .Typically the easiest way to get hulls is pick up the empties slug shooters leave at the club Wink
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16GAwaterfowler
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:28 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 287
Location: missouri

As Hoa stated roll crimped loads are for specialty hunting loads or slugs. To honestly make a good roll crimp you need the crimp tool, a drill press, a hull vice and lots of time and patience. My personal opinion, don't waste the time or energy doing it. With modern powders, wads and hulls a fold crimped load will do just as well even on shortened rounds such a 2 1/2 " load. I load up steel and hevi shot for my 16 ga guns and that takes long enough to hand weigh every shot and powder charge, I get excellent performance from fold crimps on my waterfowl loads. I seriously doubt any other type of shotshell puts more demand on components and reloading technique than non toxic reloads.
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offhand35
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 6:31 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Posts: 191
Location: Western Connecticut

I agree, it does take a lot of time to produce batches of roll crimp shells.
I made up quite a few in search of a good 65mm [2 9/16"] load. These were made from new Fiocchi hulls cut down from 70mm [2 3/4"]. They shot well, and gave me the best load from the powder I had on hand at the time.
Doing this also enabled me to shoot my 65mm chambered gun while I was looking for and acquiring a MEC loader to dedicate to short shell loading.

When I went to reload my roll crimped shells I found that I had to use a hull conditioner from Ballisitic Products to re-widen the case mouth enough to allow a new wad to be inserted....This is a large tapered cone best chucked in a drill press.....it reheats the case mouth and then reforms it....this caused more than a few splits...and since these shells were already cut down, they had to be discarded.....all of this entails a lot more time in the production of a given load.....

Lots of time involved in what has to be a very special load ....

The big advantage is that the amount of length that is crimped over is less than a fold crimp requires......it will allow you to occupy a larger volume in the shell with components, if the need is there.....

I am now reloading my reconditioned roll crimped 65mm shells as fold crimp loads......much faster, and the crimp from a MEC yields good quality loads....
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Flytier
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:48 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 87
Location: Middle TN

I guess that I could have phrased my question better. What I really want to know is how does roll crimping work, what equipment do I need, and what is the process/procedure. I realize that it will be time consuming and used for some special loads, but I like to do what I like to do.

Let's face it, I would imagine that all of us here are just little bit stubborn and like to do things our own way, otherwise we would be over on the 12 gauge forum of another website.

So somebody tell me how to do this already.

Thanks in advance for your help,

flytier
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jchandler
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:48 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 179
Location: Hoosier state

I'll tell you what works for me. I roll my 16's to feed my short-chambered Fox. I know I can still stuff 2 3/4 in shells with no obvious problem. But the 2 1/2 in shells with the labeled over shot card look so neat and work so well.

Equipment needed: Hulls (16ga of course)....I really like the newer Winchester polyformed hulls.

A trimmer ( mine is a wooden dowel with a piece of
Exacto knife stuck in at an angle to trim to 65mm (2 1/2in).

Primer, powder, wad and shot as usual

Over-shot card...I get mine from Ballistic Products.

Roll crimper..........I have the one from Ballistic Products that you chuck in your drill..but prefer the antique one I picked up at a gun show. Clamped onto an old gun rack and always ready to go.


Process: I trim the hull to 65 mm( do about 100 sitting in front of the tube watching a sit-com)

Deprime, prime, drop powder, insert and seat wad, drop shot all on your usual loader ( I'm cheap.....$35 Lee Load All II)

Place the over-shot card wad.

Stick in roll crimper and turn the handle

Remove, use pen to mark amount and size of shot used.




Yeah, it's a little time to do. But I look at it as therapy. Cheaper than a shrink!!!!
Jeff
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cedar16
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:29 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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Location: Clarkfield, MN

I enjoy roll crimping. It is a good way to salvage 2 3/4 inch hulls that have split or ragged ends. You can trim back old hulls using a sharp snips--I use the same shears I use to dress game birds. I use the Ballistic Products roll crimper. I roll crimp all my spreader loads (using the Polywad spreader device as a top wad) and use a permanent ink marker to label the shot size and load on the top wad for easy (and durable) identification in the field.
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greg
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:53 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 126
Location: penna

I use a cigar trimmer to cut cases down. You buy them at better cigar stores, looks like a guillotine (spelling) for your fingers! Then using the roll crimper from ballistic products, set drill speed high (clockwise spin) and apply light pressure to hull with spinning crimper to heat up case (about 3/4 secs) then push down hard.
I write load on overshot card. Let me know if ever find clear plastic over shot card for 16ga.
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Flytier
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:42 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 87
Location: Middle TN

Guys,

Thanks for the responses. One more question. I heard somewhere (don't remember know) that the roll crimper from Precision Reloading seems to work better than the one from Ballistic Products. Does anyone know anything about this? Opinions?

Greg - with regards to your question on clear overshot cards/wads, I believe that I saw them for sale in my BP catalog. I just do not remember if they were available in the better gauge. Laughing
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MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:23 pm  Reply with quote
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Location: Minnesota and Florida

Cool


Last edited by MaximumSmoke on Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:26 pm  Reply with quote
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Cool


Last edited by MaximumSmoke on Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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woodcock
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 1:24 pm  Reply with quote
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I agree with SS about the BP roll crimper utility as well as the general usleness of some of BP's accessories. I like their hull trimmer ok but one can be hand made easily--the skiver is over priced and a cone shaped stone in a drill press is faster and more durable.
If you decide to load paper you may find a "hull ironer" useful---a heated conditioning tool designed to re-melt the wax at the shell mouth to ready it for reloading--lets me get a few loads from paper without trimming.
Interestingly there were some newly manufactured ironers on eBay a short time ago. Barring that, there is a current listing for Peters hulls, new unprimed paper as item #7389518572. You'll need 157 size primers however.
Often I reload shells as nearly like those that were available when the gun I'm shooting was manufactured for use in the field, so I THINK I understand your motivation.
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Flytier
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:32 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 87
Location: Middle TN

Thanks guys. I actually just picked up a beautiful old hand cranked 16 gauge roll crimper on ebay for $20. Someone has been selling these lately. I have seen 4 on ebay in the last month. Four 16 gauge and too many 12's to count. So I think I am going to give it a whirl. I just have to order some overshot cards. I guess I like the idea of hunting with hand rolled shells with the shot size stamped onto the overshot card. It just seems like that's what one should feed to nice over/under.

Later,

flytier
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jchandler
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 9:21 pm  Reply with quote
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Location: Hoosier state

flytier..........good choice on the old hand crank crimper. I think it really works best. Jeff
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woodcock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:05 am  Reply with quote
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Location: Louisiana

My old hand cranker does a nice job and seems to 'connect' me with another time---why from time to time I think about hunting in a tie and hacking jacket!
Your attitude about classic fodder for classic guns seems to me to be just right.
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