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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:41 pm  Reply with quote
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Location: Glendale, AZ

Good discussion and I agree with Dr 16g. The guides I hunt with in S. Dakota (using close working labs on all wild and BIG pheasants) almost demand the shooters use Federal Premium Wing-Shok 1 and 1/4 4's but the low lifes I hunt with all use 12g. Benelli SBE's. There is no way I can shoot anything more than the 1 and 1/8 load in my 12g. Trojan 7 and 1/2 # SxS and only 1 oz. in my 16g Model 12 (and then I use 5's to fill out the pattern) When I'm hunting KS with my setter and the M-12, most shots are either out-of-range flushes or are over points and 6's seem very adequate.
Again: confidence in your gun and load is 90% of effective field shooting.
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16GAwaterfowler
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:53 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 287
Location: missouri

16gaugeguy wrote:
if you don't reload. They will reach out like the long arm of the reaper on those cold blustery days when shot patterns and birds won't stay put. 16GG.

Try Hevi shot 6's for the real long arm of the reaper in a 16 ga, I get 80-85% patterns with my #6 hevi loads @ 40 yards through my factory modified Remchoke...
I have yet to try Hevi in the 16 on pheasant, however it knocks big fat mallards for a loop even on those cold blustery days.
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brdhnt
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:37 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 19 Aug 2005
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Location: Concordia, Kansas

Blackice,

I just returned from my second week this year in Kansas. VERY dry conditions and poor scenting conditions for the dogs and some very spooky birds. On this trip I took 18 roosters in five days. ALL were taken with either an Ithaca Model 37 16 gauge or a Traditions 'Real 16' over and under. All were taken with either a factory Fiocchi Golden Pheasant load with 1 1/8th ounce of nickel # 5, or on the day the wind was blowing 30+ mph, I used a handload with 1 1/4 ounce of nickel plated #4's at 1250 FPS. I took two roosters with that load. The rest were taken with the Fiocchi load. An I.C.
tube was in both guns. I had a modified tube in the Traditions, but it was only used one time and that was a second shot on a bird to anchor it.

On the first trip just after opening weekend, I was doing some field testing of a new gun and some of Remington's new Nitro Pheasant loads. I used a 12 gauge O/U with the cylinder and IC tubes. I took 22 roosters on that trip and only one was taken with the second barrel. The Remington's I was using were the 1 1/4 ounce copper plated #4's at 1400 FPS.

Your load sounds good and should work well, even on the western birds.

Good Hunting!

TB
________
Marijuana hemp


Last edited by brdhnt on Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:15 am  Reply with quote
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I've heard some great things about Hevi-shot. However, I question the use of non-toxic shot were its not required. Why voluntarily give in to a questionable, unfounded, and unfairly required practice.( I personally think the whole non-toxic shot question is a bunch of tree hugger-anti-hunter-anti-gun buffalo bagels BS. foisted off on us by the good folks at Olin and the Kennedy supporter jerks. Where are all the millions of ducks saved from lead poisoning?). I do know that not all the barrels on older guns will handle shot harder than lead. Plus, expensive as they are, Federal 16 ga. 1-1/4 oz loads are less than half the price per shell.
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blackice
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:12 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 8
Location: Michigan, USA

Hevi-Shot is not an option...... A-5 and SxS are both pre-steel era.... Kent TM is the only option other than Nickle lead....

But I do have another question.... Is an 1-1/4oz too much for a 16ga bore size. What is the optimal payload size?

Thanks

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www.blackiceinnovations.com
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:59 am  Reply with quote
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Optimum payload for a 16 gauge gun used to be figured at 1 oz of shot of #6 or smaller. Its the so called "square load" in a 16 ga. gun where shot column length and width just about match. This gives a short, efficient shot string. 1 oz. of #6 shot ensures adequate patern density out to about 40 yards for mid sized game birds. However, with today's modern plastic wads, that "square" load is better figured at 7/8 oz., because the shot cup petals take up some space. The added shot protection and better gas seal the modern plastic wad provides makes 7/8 oz. a much more efficient load than those of 40 or so years ago.

The plastic wad has also changed shotgun ballistics sufficiently enough that the "square load" factor is not as important as it used to be. The added shot protection and efficiency from the modern plastic wad now make for better performing heavy or magnum loads in modern shotguns.

1-1/4 oz of #4 shot is about maximum in shot size and charge weight for the 16 gauge. Any shot sizes bigger than #4 do not pattern that well usually, nor will pattern density be sufficiently reliable. The bore diameter limits this factor. Any weight shot charge over 1-1/4 will string out too much and will also limit velocity to well below 1200 FPS.

Any well balanced load, I.E. those where shot charge weight and pellet size provide enough pattern density and hitting power to cleanly kill the particular bird being hunted at out to a reasonable range will work very well. In the case of the 16 ga., that is from 5/8 ounce of #8 shot for small birds like quail, all the way to 1-1/4 oz. of #4 for pheasant and the larger grouse species, as well as some of the medium sized waterfowl.

This wide range of shot sizes (#8-#4) and charge weights (5/8 oz. through 1-1/4 oz) make the 16 the most versitile upland gauge there is, if we consider that the double gun, SxS or O/U, is the gun of choice for upland and also consider sufficiently light gun weight for comfortable carry during a day's outing in the field. In short, 20's and lesser gauges won't shoot up to the potential of a 16, and most modern 12 gauge guns are made too heavy. Hence, the old gauge is coming back in a big way, because it truely is a gun that "carries like a 20 and hits like a 12" in the upland game fields of today.
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bustingclays
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:35 pm  Reply with quote
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Location: Illinois (in the burbs of St. Louis)

Gentlemen:

I'm going to have to check (I'm in the lab with students tonight) when I get home, but I believe I have a couple of boxes of Peters 16 gauge shells with 2s in them at 1 1/4 oz loads (way past square Wink ).

I'm sure these came from the home place when Dad passed away - used for long ago for waterfowl. Some of them are the clear blue shell and don't have wad cups - I like seeing the BBs in there (kinda reassuring).

I have not shot one of these in about 10 years (or more).

No I won't sell (boxes missing one or two shells Wink therefore you would not be happy if you bought them).

I am interested in what you think - I'm betting these would be good Turkey Loads in a improved mod or full choke (pattern tested of course).

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Dr. 16 Gauge
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16GAwaterfowler
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:03 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 287
Location: missouri

16gaugeguy wrote:
I've heard some great things about Hevi-shot. However, I question the use of non-toxic shot were its not required. Why voluntarily give in to a questionable, unfounded, and unfairly required practice.( I personally think the whole non-toxic shot question is a bunch of tree hugger-anti-hunter-anti-gun buffalo bagels BS. foisted off on us by the good folks at Olin and the Kennedy supporter jerks. Where are all the millions of ducks saved from lead poisoning?). I do know that not all the barrels on older guns will handle shot harder than lead. Plus, expensive as they are, Federal 16 ga. 1-1/4 oz loads are less than half the price per shell.

16GG I agree with you 110%, duck populations have fallen off more dramatically in the past 20 years. Since non toxic shot was mandated than quite obviously in my book it is not lead poisoning killing off our waterfowl. Of course you wouldn't want those folks you mentioned to have to give up their beach front homes that were built on drained wetlands which have been wiped out by the thousands of acres every year. USFWS just now is starting to admit what we knew 30 years ago, habitat loss is the culprit!!!

To get back to the orignal discussion, I would not be afraid to use 1 oz or 1 1/8 oz loads for pheasant sized game with magnum #6 or #5 shot. I honestly believe the higher speed you can push the lighter payload to will help more than increased pellet count for Pheasant sized game. I have chronoed many of the Hodgdon Longshot loads and they do get at or near listed velocities.
My favorite 1 oz Longshot load averages 1444 fps over the chrono, listed velocity is 1450 fps, so that's not to shabby. I shoot these in my 1954 model Sweet 16 and have never had a problem. I would shoot the faster loads to get the edge on your buddies with 12 gauge guns.
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:18 am  Reply with quote
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Waterfowler, what most American sportsmen and women do not realize is the the whole non-toxic shot, anti-lead issue is nothing more than a legislative vehicle to disenfranchize us from our hunting rights and subsequently take the game fields and the wetlands away from us. It is then much easier to let the political cronies and back pocket men develop the land for profit and higher tax revenues. In short, ducks and game do not pay taxes nor need beach front condos, nor vacation chalets., nor shopping malls, nor housing developements, nor golf courses, etc. etc. ad nauseum.. There is not much short term easy profits or inflated revenues in wildlife and open, undeveloped, unpaved land.

The irony is that all the so called friends of animals, environmental protectionists, and anti-hunting types who have climbed on board this movement have been duped too. They have been used and the very creatures and wilderness areas they wished to protect have been destroyed wholesale.

The level of corruption, deviousness, and sheer arrogance that has permeated our legislative and regulatory bodies in this nation is so instilled now, that I really can't see a peaceful way out. I dread the consequences and the suffering that will take place if the American people finally wake up and try to take their country back from the special interests that rule our so called representative government. However, I fear that is an infected boil that will now have to be lanced and drained. God help us.
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