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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:41 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 398
Location: S Fl

The conglomerate I was trying to remember is called GIAT.
It's a large French military contractor (if that's not an oxymoron). Very Happy

Pete
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clayflingythingy
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:34 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 311

Actually, Giatt sold FN some years back. FN is owned by a regional Belgium government.
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:58 am  Reply with quote
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I do not think GIAT is involved with Browning or Winchester/USRA any longer. They were in and out of Browning in a few years. I think the Walloons are that semi-autonomous group you are referring to. They have controlling interest in FN. Browning of North America is also partially owned by them and USRA too. They also have interest in Miroku, which also has interest in both Browning and USRA. If it were a family, it would be known as an incestuous one Laughing.

However, GIAT and FN have some kind of relationship with certain Portuguese manufacturers. Some Browning and USRA shotguns have parts sourced out to Portugal and probably Italy too. I know the new Winchester O/U is supposedly of Belgian manufacture. However, the parts are probably sourced all over the globe.

Lets face it, none of us really knows any longer where our guns are truely made. Even Made in America is a loosely strewn about term. Its a global economy now and we had better get used to it. It doesn't really matter either if the guns are well built, safe, and reliable.
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Wolfchief
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:25 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 782
Location: Indiana

Sorry---but it matters a whole lot to me. Winchester and its products helped create, temper and refine the American character in a time when the country was expanding. It was a time when tough-minded people took their future into their own hands, took risks, settled some very inhospitable sections of this nation and paid in very hard coin to do it; they fought daily for prosperity and survival--- and accepted the consequences for their good or bad decisions. And NOTE that Winchester was in the forefront of that industrial revolution in this country at a time when the Japanese, etc. were still fighting with knives and swords.

Winchester's heyday was during a time when people took pride in manufacturing a dollar's worth of product for a dollar in pay. That's why I could still hunt ducks, if I were so inclined, with the 10 ga. lever action Model 1887 that my grandfather left me--and why, 70 years later, I shot several squirrels last fall with a Model 69 bolt .22 Winchester that was made in 1936. To me the loss of Winchester is real...financially, physically and psychologically. To paraphrase Pea Eye on "Lonesome Dove"---"Winchester's gone.....my Lord !"

_________________
One Man with Courage is a Majority
---Andrew Jackson
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:19 am  Reply with quote
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Wolf Chief. Make no mistake. I will miss them too. But it won't change a damned thing. We have much bigger problems facing us. We need to look no further than our own society, its leaders, and its government. We lost Winchester to a corrupted process infected with greed, indifference, and arrogance. We will lose much more in the near future so brace yourself. This down hill sleigh ride isn't near over yet.

We are faced with a system of government that is corrupted to the point that it no longer gives a damn about the individual or even whole regions of its own nation. Remember Katrina. We need to call for a national Constitutional Convention and we need to do it now, not some time soon.

We have a legislative branch so corrupted by special interests and long term professional politicians like T kennedy, that its a wonder it works at all. We need to place term limits on these clowns eliminate institutionalized corruption. The lobbyests and special interest groups will always be there. That is part of the freedom of speech and assembly. Elimintating them will only silence us more. But that is what is happening.

Getting rid of the overly corrupted and entrenched lifetime politicians on a regular and manditory basis will automatically control the power of special interest and political groups. It is the leaders and always has been. That is where the problem lies. All this so called special interest control we've been hearing about is nothing more than legislative slight of hand to prevent us from seeing the truth and to blind us and silence us even more. What hypocracy. Oust the entrenched and corrupted senators and congressmen and the problem will be well on the way to being solved. Do it regularly and the problem will be solved.

We need to revamp and take back our electoral process. We need to eliminate the loopholes and corruption that so marred and shamed the 2000 presidential race. We need to stop the local and state politicians from highjacking our votes to put in their political hacks and cronies. We also need to all vote once we register so the blank ballots of an apathetic constituancy can't be purloined so damned easily. We need to elect our own process oversears rather than blandly letting our local political machines foist off their sycophants on us.

Finally, we need more control over an executive branch that rips apart anyone who stands up to protest the excesses it commits like Waco and Ruby Ridge. We need to stop them from forcing us to offer our lives and the lives of our sons and daughters to the same damned military/industrial complex, that greedy God of War we are compelled to do so to every 15 to 20 years it seems. We are also bled white through taxes to support the process. Then the profits made from our labors and sacrifices are used to set up the next war.

This damned Iraqi war has dragged on long enough. Let them elect their own leaders and face the consequences. If they get another Saddam Hussein, kill the son of a bitch and let them vote again until they get it right. We dont need 200,000 or more ground troops to do that, just one well placed bomb. Now its Iran. Ok, bomb the living shit out of their nuclear plants and be done with it. Sending in ground troops to clean up the mess is stupid. Let them clean it up. It will keep them occupied and they won't be screwing around over here. And every time they screw with us, slap them down so hard that they will piss all over their shoes thinking about it from then on. We have the power. But its focused the wrong way. Lets start facing the consequences of our actions and make them do the same. Any one of them including our "good friends" the Saudis.

Let these sand pounding, American hating, crap heads choke on their oil; buy a damned moped, or at least get rid of the 10-15 MPG SUV and buy a 35 to 40 MPG 4 cylinder hatchback, a hybrid, take the bus, or walk if its possible. We are at fault here too. We give them the wealth it takes to export the hate they feel for us, because we can't live without the new super V-8 powered Ford Expedition ( Isn't there an even bigger one now, the Exersion? Can you land a plane on it?). Eliminate the oil produced wealth and let them fester in their own rock strewn, sun baked hell.

Wolf Chief, we lost Winchester years, no, decades ago. What else have you got that they will take from you. Past is past. The fight for our existance lies in front of you. 16GG.
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