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Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 87 Location: Middle TN

Okay. I did not want to highjack someone elses thread so here goes. I have read thru numerous threads regarding the use of 20 gauge wads for 7/8 ounce target loads. Both here and on the LPG site. I thought I just about knew what I needed to order until I read just a little to much. My intent is to load 7/8 #9 with a Win 209 in the Rem black game load hull. I was going to use Unique and the SG20L wad, but then came across some info regarding whether or not I need 1/8 28 card to get the crimp height right.

So tell me guys, what is the best wad for me to use? The SG20L, the 20S1, the TC20 (I just started seeing this one pop up) or something else that I do not know about (Orange Duster?)? Which wads need a filler card, etc. and which ones do not?

Also, which wad at Grafs is the same as the SG20L at BP?
Question

Thanks for any help,

flytier

I havn't had to use any filler with the 20 ga wads and 7/8oz shot. The wad from Grafs is the GU2025.

Joined: 19 Jan 2006 Posts: 91

If you are going to order from Grafs, then I suggest you get the Gualandi wads for 1 oz, not the 1-1 1/8 oz 16 wads. I was the one who started loading 20 ga. wads in 16 cases several years ago. I have since ordered the 1 oz wads from Grafs in 16 ga. and they load perfectly in old AA or Remington cases. That way, you can use any powder you desire, with the correct burning rate, and not get any powder migration. And, you get a perfect 7/8 oz loading with the correct crimp. If I want heavier loads, I use a Federal case, which will load up to 1 1/16 oz with the same wad. It is a very versatile wad to use.

Lenard

Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 158 Location: NW Florida

I agree with SageRat. I use the Gualandi 1oz wads for 7/8oz loads in 2.5in Fiocchi hulls. Real sweet low pressure load for an old double.

Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 87 Location: Middle TN

SageRat,

Thanks for the response, but just so I am perfectly clear... The wad you are referring to is the GU1621, correct?

Thanks,

flytier

Joined: 19 Jan 2006 Posts: 91

If you get on their website, they have a choice of two different Gualandi 16 ga. wads. One is said to hold 1 oz and the other is 1-1 1/18 oz.

Since I bought 5000 of them in bulk, I have no container to refer to the number you gave. So just make sure you choose the 1 oz wad.

Just a point of information. The 1 1/8 oz wad is larger in diameter and works best in the straight walled cases, or so it has been posted on other boards. It will bulge the Remington cases.

You will find that the 1 oz wad just makes into a beautiful load and crimp with the Remington cases. I think personally that unique is a very good choice.

Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 87 Location: Middle TN

SageRat,

Thanks for the info. I will be sure and post back how this works out. I took a lesson in skeet shooting last weekend and had an incredible time. And this was using an I/C choke and one ounce Remington game loads of #7.5. I cannot wait to go back and use a 7/8 ounce load of #9's.

flytier

I tried the 1 oz. Gualaundi wad from Graf's (which is also the same 1 oz. wad Ballistic Products sells under their own created name). The ones I have bulge the new Remington Green or Black polyformed hulls with the plastic base wad. This bulge varies somewhat from hull to hull, because the inside diameter of the walls of the Remington case vary somewhat, and the Gualandi wads are a very snug fit at best. In the worst case, shell to shell, they are very tough to seat.

The wads themselves must vary in diameter from one to another. I've found that ballistic uniformity can suffer due to the less than ideal fit. I've had some 7/8 loads using these wads fire with noticably heavier than normal recoil, which is a bit unnerving, and not at all predictable.

To top it off, the shotcups on these wads will not protect even 7/8 oz of shot adequately, because they are too shallow and accept only 5/8 oz. of shot. Subgauge shot loads need as many pellets to fly true as can be reasonably expected. That requires good shot column protection. the qualaundi wads don't offer this protection.

Therefore, I think a wad with a slip fit and enough cup depth to protect at least 90% of the shot is a better choice here. Plastic wads will bump up upon firing to fill both the case and the barrel better than they will compress in a plastic hull for loading. That is why I tried and liked the Federal 20S1 wad in the Remington hull better than the Gualaundi 16 ga wad. I loaded several hundred without any seating problems. They all shot very well, and very uniformly. Patterns were also excellent.

However, the Remington wads are made for the Remington hull and are, ballistically, still the best overall choice for this hull. You just can't get by without a filler wad in the shot cup for subgauge weight loads like 5/8 to 7/8 oz or 1 oz in the SP-16 if that is what you have. however, uniformity and patterns will be excellent. In my opinion, that is what counts the most when all is said and done. 16GG.

Joined: 19 Jan 2006 Posts: 91

16GaugeGuy

I have probably loaded in excess of 3500 of the Gualandi and Ballistic Products wads in Rem. and AA cases. I never have experienced a bulge in the cases so I am suggesting you were sold something different than what you wanted.

As for the shotcup not holding all the shot, I am not sure it makes all that much difference if you are using hard shot. I shoot a large amount of pest birds each summer and fall from distances of 15 to upwards to 60 yards. I use those wads all the time and when I am on a bird, I usually kill them.

Frankly from a practical standpoint, it does not make much difference.

About 7 years ago a friend gave me about a hundred once-fired green Rem hulls in exchange for some spreader loads I loaded for him. I loaded one ounce loads in these using the BPI Gualandi wads. About one in five wrinkles or bulges. The shells will chamber in my double, so it is mostly a matter of cosmetics. Dug out some of those Rem hulls for reloading again last week and got some more bulges and wrinkles. I will probably use Rem wads from now on in those hulls. The Gualandi wads seem to be best suited to Cheddite and Fiocchi hulls where they produce a nice smooth, neatly crimped load nearly every time. Gualandis have worked well for me in Federal hulls as well. My recent quest for tighter patterns has shown that Rem SP wads and the TC16/Z16 wads do produce a bit tighter patterns, about 57-60% in my IC barrel, compared to about 53-55% for Gualandi (using #5 shot). For some of my hunting situations (early pheasants and prairie grouse), I want a little more open pattern as flushes are often close and I have fixed chokes in my 16. The Gualandis are about right for those shots.

Ceder, Have you tried the 16 ga. Polywad spreader inserts in your Remington Sp-16 wads? They seat and crimp perfectly on a 1 oz. load of shot. They displace 1/8 oz of shot exactly, so they will work in the R16 wad for a 7/8 oz spreader. They work very well in my AyA super tight barrels.

Sage Rat, I'm betting its the diameter variance. Graf's sold me exactly what I ordered. 16 ga Gualaundi wads are all made to the same nominal diameter. The wad molds are all cut to the same diameter. However, different batches of polyethylene beads will melt and expand or contract at different rates batch to batch. Different rates of heating the plastic and variations in melt temperature will also affect actual as cast size, as well as pour to release time. A wad requiring more plastic or less plastic will also fill out the mold and cast differently too. As cast size is very hard to control from a wad manufacturer's standpoint and variances can be seen in all makes of wads. The same conditions affect the size of the plastic tubes extruded to make polyformed hulls. (The Federal 20S1 wads I mentioned varied nearly .010" of an inch wad to wad from the same bag.) So most wad manufacturers tend to mold their wads at least .020" smaller in diameter than what the hulls they use call for to insure a slip fit. They rely on the elasticity of the wad to let it obturate and fill the hull and the bore and seal the gas behind it. Polyethylene wads do this extremely well. Its one of the reasons modern ammo is so ballistically uniform compared to the old card wad shells prior to 1960 or so.

It could be that you got a batch of wads with smaller diameters than nominal. Its also possible your Remington hulls are a bit bigger than nominal. Also, maybe what I consider a bulge is not to you. None of my loads refused to chamber although a few needed to be thumbed into the several guns I shot them in. None were so bulged as to be grossly mishapen. However, the rings caused by the overly tight wads were readily noticable on the outside of the hull wall. However, if you like Gualandi wads, use them. Just don't be too disappointed if the next bunch you buy doesn't work out as well.

16GG, Thanks for tip on Polywad inserts in SP16--I'll file that one for future reference. I have loaded the Polywad insert over Gualandi wads, but I also pull the petals off the wad. My only need for spreaders is for woodland grouse and woodcock where ranges are typically 10-20 yards in thick popple regrowth. I typically load spreaders in my old hulls that are split at the crimp. I shorten them, load, insert the polywad and then roll crimp. Yes the Polywads do a good job, giving something resembling a pattern at about 12 yards and giving a really decently opened one at 20-25 yards. In these coverts, grouse are usually out of site at 20 yards, but I load a non-spreader in the left barrel in case I miss with first shot and the bird breaks out over the top of the aspen canopy as they sometimes do.

Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 87 Location: Middle TN

Just to steer this back towards my original question, what is the best 20 gauge wad choice for 7/8 ounce load of #9 in a Remington Black game load hull? I am planning on using Unique and Win209 primers. I am looking for a wad that works well for lighter loads and is less expensive than the Rem SP-16. I have read too much already about the bulging case issues with the 16 gauge wad and am currently more interested in a suitable 20 gauge wad.

Thanks again,

flytier

either the SG20L wad ( GU2025 from Grafs) or the Orange Duster. I've used up a bag of the former with 7/8 oz , black Rem hull, Win 209 and Unique. My notes at the time: "Excellent crimps, no filler needed, easy to load, mild recoil in my Nitro Special"
Hope this helps answer your question. Jeff

Joined: 15 Dec 2005 Posts: 287 Location: missouri

The Gualandi wads run from .666 to .665, the Sp-16 wads are .642 as was stated lot to lot variations in hulls and wads will cause even more descrepancies. In taper wall cases the Sp-16, R-16 or AA -16 work the best.
The Gualandi wads work best in straight wall cases such as the Federal, Fiocchi, Cheddite and Winchester Polyformed.
The Sp-16 can be used for 7/8 loads in the Remington hulls with no fillers, I use IMR SR4756 and get very good results with lighter loads in the taper wall hulls.