16ga.com ~ View topic - Toxic Vs. Non-Toxic

Hootch, Please don't take this as any attempt at a personal attack. I don't do that ! .... BUT ... As I have spent twenty five + years in the Agri-Chemical
Application business ( Crop Dusting ) I have a little insight into the
subject of Agri-Chemicals. I would love to write about all I have whitnessed where politics , money and agriculture have crossed paths and the poor, uneducated pawns ( the average person) have been used to further the agenda of a few. But that would take volumns !
I shall simply state that " Without today's chemical programs, expertly applied in U.S. Agriculture, Half of the world would be starving (including the U.S.). Your life expectancy would be ten years less than it is , your health care costs would be greatly increased. AND you would weigh a lot less ! Our society would closely resemble that of the " Organic" early 20th century.

Nothing Personal Intended, Just my first hand Opinion.

"Better living through Chemistry"

Rabbitdog

Guest

So Rabbit Dog we have the agro chemical industry to blame for the rampant obesity our society is now experiencing. Better not let Obama and the other limp wrist-ed politicians in the White House hear that, they will be taxing you and every farmer back into the stone ages.

Hootch need to correct a statement you made about hunting and that is while only about 30% of the population participate in the hunting sports a majority of Americans support hunters and hunting. Big difference than your statement. It is our number one job as hunters to keep it that way.

Yes, I like lead shot like everyone else, but I can't see a downside to using similar density notox as long as it becomes affordable, which it should as economies of scale kick in, just like it did with steel. Once lead becomes more or less banned, notox alternatives will fill the void , and the price will necessarily come down. C'est la vie.

Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 1460 Location: Eagle, Nebraska

Then there is a loud vocal, minority then. Same one that voted in our current president I assume.

Ask the hunters in Iowa (and others I am sure) why they don't have a dove season.

Fewer and fewer people support hunting because they haven't a clue. I live in NEB you in Kan, still midwest, with that midwest upbringing. Once you cross the Mississippi and west of the Sierra's I bet the support for hunting diminishes very quickly.

Guest

Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 1460 Location: Eagle, Nebraska

I remember when NEB didn't have dove season, and I know the person almost singly responsible for keeping it that way for so long. Very wealthy person who despised all forms of hunting! (tough "neighbor" to have considering my family)

Here would be my take if not somewhat conspiratorial or synical on the AG Chem scene:

Why and who do you think was the major lobby to end CRP funding?
Millions and Millions of acres out there not being planted with THEIR seed, or having THEIR chemicals applied. Millions of acres. Billions of dollars.

With CRP coming to an end we will see a drastic drop in bird populations in the Midwest. It is coming soon.

Maybe this spendthrift govt we have now may throw money at some form of CRP type program and maybe that may stave off the crash. But I don't hold out much hope.

As for Nelson, he is quickly becoming no friend to Nebraskans. My guess is he is not planning on running ever again. He is proving right now just to be another Dem vote with no individual voice or voice for Nebraskans.

Anyway, way too political and synical for Sunday morning. I may have to load some 16's go out back and shoot a way for the day!!!

Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 1460 Location: Eagle, Nebraska

Interesting point. Hopefully someone thinks of something!!
I am afraid lead is going to go away, sooner than we think. Sure would like an alternative before that happens.

Steel is less than desirable, bismuth in my experience sucks. Rather use steel. I have had moderate success with Hevi-steel and use it rather than regular steel. Love the hevi-shot, but expensive and of course, once you get out of 12ga, offerings are slim to none.

TM works great too, but once again, expensive.

Would like to see Hevi-steel offered as a component to reload. Would be cheaper than the ITX I would guess.

Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 728

Shooting Sioux has hit the nail on the head if not driven it all the way home. We should not underestimate the impact we can- and must- all have as individuals and local groups to support the shooting sports and insist on objective regulations.

Joined: 20 Mar 2009 Posts: 428

Does this mean that, in the future, we will need to start collecting rocks to load in our shotshells? If so, we had better get started right away!

The idea of loading gold really is appealing especially from a shooting range viewpoint. When the traps start wearing out, you just go prospecting, dig up all that old gold shot you been throwing out in the field, take it to the money exchange, and go get your new traps. Idea

Seriously, we as sportsmen need to continue to be very outspoken about this issue. I am all for protecting the environment, but, until a compareable alternative is offered, I say DON'T OUTLAW LEAD!

We need to put the burden of replacement onto the individuals who want to outlaw lead ---- FIND AN ALTERNATIVE! To me, "compareable" means -- good supply of the material to manufacture, ballistically similar to lead, and affordable!

Petroleum is hazardous too, but I don't see the Government outlawing it Exclamation

And they won't until they have something to replace it Exclamation

Member Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 665 Location: Louisiana

My original comment in this thread was in support of shootingsioux---this comment will be as well.................
An "alternative" to lead is unlikely if cost considerations are to be included---no such element. Crying or Very sad

However we are not without hope depending on the courage and disposition of hunters/shooters.
I believe the answer to revising current lead shot regulations lies in civil disobediance.

An entire segment of our population managed to have their rights/concerns addressed simply by being unwilling to conform to regulation/law that they deemed to unfair.
The 55mph speed limit was scrubbed simply because motorists refused to adhere to it. etc.

In addition, the perfusion of 'right to carry' regulations is a result of the efforts of determined gun owners.
The 'gun ban' in Washington, D.C. was overturned as a result of the unwillingness of a single gun owner to surrender his right to bear arms.
Etc,.etc.,etc.,etc.,

This is a fearsome step I admit, but you may well find it only the first of 'acts of disobediance' if gun regulation proceeds as many fear it may. (e.g. in the place of outright assault on the 2nd amendment, a gradual imposition of law/regulation that makes firearm ownership/usage/hunting acessable only to the wealthy.)

Our forefathers fought to bring this country into existence and others have fought to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution" in foreign lands. Will you fight at home to defend it?

Scary times Confused

Joined: 18 Feb 2006 Posts: 52

Here, here, Woodcock! well said, but where do we find more folks that think like you!??

We are living in an increasingly emasculated society it seems, where the average guy doesn't dare say 'Boo!' to either his neighbor, his kids, or his elected government officials. Both Sad and 'Scary' for me.

We recently thwarted (for now, at least) an attempt to "just study" the elimination of lead shot for use in Montana's uplands. A lot of hunters/conservationists here at the grassroots level made it clear it wasn't going to happen with their tax dollars unless 'the need' could be clearly demonstrated. It wasn't. So, it has been tabled for the time being, but constant vigilance, and perhaps, even some non-violent protest one day may be needed to have our viewpoint considered.

Gotta run, just heard one of those black Sikorsky's fly over Shocked

but 'Thanks' for saying what a lot of others should be saying.

All Best,

Rob