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Joined: 08 Oct 2005 Posts: 241

I had quite a supply of 16 hulls and have been reloading the 16 since 1990. Until discovering this board I just did sort of stumbled in the darkness. Well my hull supply was exhuasted and I turned to the Black Remington hull after reading about it here . Thnaks guys!

During winter trap I am doing a test on the hull life and # of reloads possible per hull.

I started with a case of factory loads and have been stuffing them with 1 once loads with Unique. I will post my results when the cases give up their last gasp of life but so far have the following results:

1) My 600 jr loves them. The crimp seems like it was factory adjusted for them.

2) If a hull crimps up poorly the first time it never seems to crimp well in following reloads.

3) If the hulls do not fail in the first or second firing they will not fail for a long time. I have had some cases split on the first or second firing with the split being 1" or longer. These I discard. This seems to happen to 2 or 3 cases per hundred.

More to follow
16 crazy

Member Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 989 Location: Las Vegas

When ;referring to the Remington "black case" I assume you are talking about their promo game loads. I am just starting to reload these and noticed some of the cases are split after firing the original factory load. I have noticed that they crimp very well using 7/8 oz shot and a couple of 1/8 oz under shot .28 ga. cards.

Matt

I'd check your crimp depth if they are splitting after one reloading. You might be setting the fold too deep. About .050" is deep enough from top of rolled edge to top of fold. Any more will shorten the case life considerably. I typically get a mild split at the mouth of the case after about three reloads. I reload them one more time and then toss them. This way, I average about four reloads or five firings if you count the first factory load. a few will start to split after the second reload, but usually will hold together for two more.

Using a wad that is too tight for the hull will also stretch it upon firing. That is one of the reasons I avoid the 16 ga Gualaundi and other wads with fatter diameters than the R16 and SP-16 wads. I found the Gualaundi wads really shortened the Remington hull case life. About two reloads ay most was all I could get before the hulls were split beyond serviceable condition.

Perhaps the plastic in the hulls you have or the skived taper at the mouth varies from the lot I have been reloading too. The last batch I got was very new. On top of that, plastic hulls get more brittle with age. this would also shorten case life. Excessive heat or cold will also damage them. I store all my hulls in a dry, non-heated basement that never gets colder than 55 or hotter than 70 degrees. My hulls keep very well there.

However, high velocity loads over 1200 FPS will also shorten the case life. I only load 3/4 and 7/8 oz recreational target loads at 1150 FPS in the black Remington hull. I use the high brass green ones for 1 oz. HV hunting loads or a Fiocchi case for heavy shot charges of 1-1/8 to 1-1/4 oz. at fairly fast velocities. 16GG.

Member Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 3438 Location: Illinois

I run these things into the ground-often get 10 plus loads outta them----19.3 Universal,W209,1oz homemade shot--YEAH---

Member Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 989 Location: Las Vegas

16gg. I've got cases that are split after firing the factory load! Haven't gotten too far into shooting the reloads yet. I'm reloading the Remington SP 16 wads. Thanks for the heads up on the Recob's R16 order. I have a call into Chris.

Matt

Joined: 26 Dec 2005 Posts: 79 Location: Round Rock, TX

I'm having terrible luck with the black Remington cases. They're already quite charred after shooting the initial factory load, and I get very mild splits around the crimp on the first reload. I have much better luck with Federal hulls (I also have about 7x as many Federal hulls to work with). It makes me wish that we had more 7/8 oz loads using the Federal hulls and a better wad (not the SG16 with the shallow shot cup).

Are these Remington cases from the newest batch of GL16 (black 1 oz) loads? I understand Remington has upped the velocity to over 1200FPS from 1150. This might be because the new Remington 1100 16 ga models are not functioning 100% with older GL16 loads. Remington may be trying to solve a problem backwards here.

All my cases are from older batches of GL16 shells and have held up reasonably well. I too have had a few split a bit upon the first firing. However, if its a little one involving only the end of the case mouth, I will still reload the case and often get several reloads before the case is used up.

Often, a smoky coating on the outside of the mouth of a case indicates a slower powder than ideal with a longer burn time and/or less than ideal pressures being reached before the shot and wad leaves the case mouth.

Maybe Remington needs to rethink their load design again or look at the gas port design specs of their new 16 ga 1100 autos. Something might not be of a pleasing odor in Copenhagen.

bigRic, you can use both the R16 and the SP-16 wads very easily in the Federal cases without any difficulties. Both have been used for years, decades even. However, you will need to use 28 ga. card wads in the bottom of the shot cup to fill it when loading sub gauge shot weight charges like 7/8 oz. This is true across the board with any case.

However, avoid using fine grained ball powders and stick with bulkir disc and flake powders. I would recommend 17-18 grains of Green Dot for the 7/8 oz. loads and an R16 wad.

Joined: 26 Dec 2005 Posts: 79 Location: Round Rock, TX

Thanks. I've built a number of loads using the Federal hull and the SP-16 with nitro cards without any problems; it's just that the 7/8 oz recipies from the LPG for the Federal hull all use the SG16 wad, which I just purchased a number of but do not like. Looks like I'll pick up some Green Dot to add to my rapidly-growing powder collection and give that a try.

The light loads using Unique and the black Remington hull are great; I just don't like that hull for a number of reasons and don't have very many of them.

Once Federal hulls replace the fiber base wad with a waterproof plastic one and finally come out of the dark ages, I'll use them more too. I just don't trust fiber or paper base wads for safety reasons, especially in hulls for repeated reloadings in large numbers like skeet ammo. Its too easy to miss a bad one. I think Alliant will see to this issue soon, just for the sake of liability issues. I see that the Federal/Estate cartridges are already doing this.

I agree with you about the Gualaundi wads. Their design is a poor one. I understand the theory behind it of a faster spreading pattern in tight chokes. However, I think choke tubes, less choke constiction, or the Polywad spreader insert is the answer, not bore scrubbed, flattened, and unpredictable shot caused by inadaquate protection.

Plastic wads revolutionized, modernized, and greatly improved shotgun ballistics. Using gualaundi half cup wads is like travelling with one foot in the horse's stirrup and one foot on the choo-choo train. Wink

Joined: 26 Dec 2005 Posts: 79 Location: Round Rock, TX

A little off-topic, but what primer would you suggest with that load, and what kind of velocity do you get out of it?

Any standard primer will do. It really doesn't matter a whole bunch. FYI, it appears the new CCI 209 primers are being made by the same plant that makes the Federal primers. The primer cap and battery cups are indentical in size and shape. They should be milder than the Federal 209A primer too. So they should work very well in your Federal cases.

I'd expect 1150 to 1200 FPS or thereabouts. I don't pay much attention to velocity in recreational loads. As long as they reliably break targets and there are no weak sounding reports, that is all that matters to me. I use a bit more powder in hunting loads if the pressure allows it or use a slower powder and more of it to get the extra velocity I like in a killing load.

One tip here. Always varify your powder charge weight on a scale. Most powder bushings throw well under the nomional weight they are supposed to. Its a safety and liability issue, but it gets carried too far and causes a lot of squib loads for those folks who never check weigh what their reloader is really throwing.

Joined: 15 Oct 2005 Posts: 11

Joined: 26 Dec 2005 Posts: 79 Location: Round Rock, TX

Thanks, 16GG. I did get a scale after reloading my first box, and did learn that yes, the powder bushing chart supplied by MEC was waaay off.

Bob, the shot cups on the SG16 wads offer protection for only about 2/3 oz of shot from what I can tell. If you put a 1/8" card in the bottom of the cup to build a 7/8 oz load... you get the idea. The SP16 wad, on the other hand, holds just over 1 oz, protecting the shot as it travels through the barrel and keeping it together for a better pattern.

Member Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 743

My experience with these is pretty much like Guy's. Might get 3 or 4 reloads out of them before they split; some split earlier. Back when they were made with an 8 point crimp, hull life was much better. I use mostly the Winchesters now, although they don't have a whole lot better hull life. There just isn't much out there when it comes to decent 16ga hulls, which is an unfortunate fact of life for 16ga reloaders.