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| < 16ga. Ammunition & Reloading ~ Polywad Spredr Update |
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 Posted:
Sat Aug 01, 2009 4:17 pm
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Joined: 06 Apr 2007
Posts: 3373
Location: The Great Northwet
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Went out last weekend to pattern some polywad spredr's for the first time. The results were eye opening. In my m/f Lefever, 1 0z. 8's patterned incredibly well, with a perfect i/c pattern in the mod. barrel at 40 yds. Very even, no holes. I was blown away. When I switched to 1 oz. 6's and 5's however, the pattern was still definitely wider, but a few holes started appearing in the middle (where the bird hopefully would be) as was reported on earlier threads.
I will try putting the top 1/8oz. on top of the spreader as Mike Campbell suggested and see how it works. That's a lot of hassle to go through though, so in the end I may end up just opening my right barrel to i/c and call it a day. Further updates to follow... |
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The man's prayer from the Red Green Show: "I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to. I guess." |
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| Posted:
Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:43 pm
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Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 582
Location: Great Lakes
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| Give the X treme a try. I have come to prefer it over the PW. |
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A Springer Spaniel, a 6# double and a fair day to hunt. |
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Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:13 pm
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Last edited by mike campbell on Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| Posted:
Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:30 pm
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Joined: 09 Jul 2009
Posts: 510
Location: Central CT
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Just an observation/question.
Why are you worried about 40 yard performance with a spreader load?
Wouldn't you be a lot better off patterning those loads at 20 - 30 yards, that is the distance you are trying to get the load to pattern correctly for?
I can't imagine bothering with a spreader for 40 yards, correct?
Those loads being patchy at 40 yards are exactly as they are supposed to be, you opened up the choke with the spreader. The polywads will open up a choke about 2 constrictions (.010), and they did, from modified to I/C and maybe a bit more. You really got the performance that you reloaded to get.
The part about spreaders that I don't understand and definitely do not agree with, is that they push pellets out of the 20" core of the pattern. The exact part of the pattern that you kill a bird or crush a target with. It makes absolutely no sense to destroy the working part of a shotshell pattern.
In my tunnel vision world, modify the chokes or put choke tubes in. You will not disrupt the integrity of the working part of the pattern, by playing with the chokes. |
Last edited by huntNnut on Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mark, Dogchaser37 |
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Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:50 pm
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Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 1338
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Last edited by mike campbell on Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| Posted:
Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:55 am
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Joined: 06 Apr 2007
Posts: 3373
Location: The Great Northwet
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| BigCreekMI wrote: |
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Give the X treme a try. I have come to prefer it over the PW.
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Been there, done that. I found patterns to be erratic and not as big an increase in spread as I had hoped. |
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The man's prayer from the Red Green Show: "I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to. I guess." |
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| Posted:
Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:57 am
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Joined: 06 Apr 2007
Posts: 3373
Location: The Great Northwet
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| mike campbell wrote: |
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As to pattern holes; people who shoot one or two PW spreader patterns may swear there are no holes. People who have patterned 10 or more will tell you ignorance is bliss.
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That's a great observation. |
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The man's prayer from the Red Green Show: "I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to. I guess." |
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| Posted:
Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:03 am
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Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2007
Posts: 3373
Location: The Great Northwet
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| huntNnut wrote: |
Just an observation/question.
Why are you worried about 40 yard performance with a spreader load?
Wouldn't you be a lot better off patterning those loads at 20 - 30 yards, that is the distance you are trying to get the load to pattern correctly for?
I can't imagine bothering with a spreader for 40 yards, correct?
Those loads being patchy at 40 yards are exactly as they are supposed to be, you opened up the choke with the spreader. The polywads will open up a choke about 2 constrictions (.010), and they did, from modified to I/C and maybe a bit more. You really got the performance that you reloaded to get.
The part about spreaders that I don't understand and definitely do not agree with, is that they push pellets out of the 20" core of the pattern. The exact part of the pattern that you kill a bird or crush a target with. It makes absolutely no sense to destroy the working part of a shotshell pattern.
In my tunnel vision world, modify the chokes or put choke tubes in. You will not disrupt the integrity of the working part of the pattern, by playing with the chokes.
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You've raised some excellent points here. Your comment that they push pellets out of the 20% core of the pattern is very thought provoking. At close range I found the patterns to be quite even, but I hunt out West for huns, chukars, quail and phez, and I get few close shots except at quail. Most of my shots are 25-40 yds, so pattern density is important to me. I kind of do feel like I'm nibbling at the edges when I should just have the barrels opened as you mentioned and be done with it, since this gun's primary use is as an upland gun, not a duck gun. I've got a 12b Lefever coming soon for that. |
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The man's prayer from the Red Green Show: "I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to. I guess." |
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| Posted:
Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:08 am
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Joined: 06 Apr 2007
Posts: 3373
Location: The Great Northwet
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| mike campbell wrote: |
| huntNnut wrote: |
Wouldn't you be a lot better off patterning those loads at 20 - 30 yards, that is the distance you are trying to get the load to pattern correctly for?
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Good point. These patterns were shot at 17 yards. The desired one on the right is 23 inches. No matter what I'm shooting, at any distance, the ideal is an effective pattern of 22-24 inches. In this case, I get a 100% pattern with sufficient density to break a rabbit target at 50 feet.
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Your pattern on the right is what I'm looking for in terms of pattern density, except at longer range. If I can get that out of my mod. barrel at 30-40 yds (my average chukar shot) with 1 oz. 6's, , then I'll be satisfied. If not, then it's choke opening time. |
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Gun art: www.marklarsongunart.com
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The man's prayer from the Red Green Show: "I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to. I guess." |
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| Posted:
Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:20 am
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Joined: 09 Jul 2009
Posts: 510
Location: Central CT
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Uncledanfan,
The pattern on the right is 23" across, not 30". You should be able to duplicate that pattern easily with a modified choke at 35 yards and #6 magnum shot. |
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Mark, Dogchaser37 |
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| Posted:
Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:21 am
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Joined: 06 Apr 2007
Posts: 3373
Location: The Great Northwet
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| huntNnut wrote: |
Uncledanfan,
The pattern on the right is 23" across, not 30". You should be able to duplicate that pattern easily with a modified choke at 35 yards and #6 magnum shot.
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Thanks. I am getting tight mod. patterns at 35 yds. However, I'm looking for good i/c patterns at 35 yds. because I'm fringing more birds than I'm used to. |
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Gun art: www.marklarsongunart.com
Gallery art: www.marklarsonart.com
The man's prayer from the Red Green Show: "I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to. I guess." |
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| Posted:
Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:43 am
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Joined: 09 Jul 2009
Posts: 510
Location: Central CT
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I believe that things will get worse if you are going to open up the pattern at that yardage.
The outer 5" annular ring of a 30" pattern looks very enticing to put pellets in. However, you will find, that it will be an excercise in futility. The annular ring is the Golden BB territory and one of the traps that come with looking at a shotshell pattern on paper. The opposite is true, keep the pellets in the 20" core where they belong.
Patterning a shotshell on paper is a tool to be used, it is not by any stretch, to be the end all evaluation method.
When we as shooters are "fringing birds", we need to go back to the practice field and find out what is wrong with our shooting style. You won't find the cure in a shotshell. I am not trying to upset you just giving you honest advice that comes from personal experience (i.e. the school of hard knocks). |
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Mark, Dogchaser37 |
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| Posted:
Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:00 pm
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Joined: 06 Apr 2007
Posts: 3373
Location: The Great Northwet
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| Quote: |
| When we as shooters are "fringing birds", we need to go back to the practice field and find out what is wrong with our shooting style. You won't find the cure in a shotshell. I am not trying to upset you just giving you honest advice that comes from personal experience (i.e. the school of hard knocks).
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No offense taken. There is zero doubt the indian is almost always more to blame than the arrow. I'm just basing my assumptions on nearly identical guns I've owned previously that were choked i/c rather than mod, and it seemed like I hit birds with them a bit easier than I am now. It could just be though that I remember the hits more than the misses!  Having said that, I was at the skeet range this morning and I'm still shooting 20-23 with spreader loads on a regular basis, so it's not like I'm not shooting decently, But, skeet is skeet, and wild birds are wild birds. There's a big difference, and I don't like to miss, period. 
P.S. - now that I think about it, I don't remember shooting better than 20-23 previously anyway, so I'm probably just imagining a problem where there isn't one. Sheesh. |
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Gun art: www.marklarsongunart.com
Gallery art: www.marklarsonart.com
The man's prayer from the Red Green Show: "I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to. I guess." |
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| Posted:
Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:34 pm
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Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 52
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| huntNnut wrote: |
The outer 5" annular ring of a 30" pattern looks very enticing to put pellets in. However, you will find, that it will be an excercise in futility. The annular ring is the Golden BB territory and one of the traps that come with looking at a shotshell pattern on paper. The opposite is true, keep the pellets in the 20" core where they belong.
When we as shooters are "fringing birds", we need to go back to the practice field and find out what is wrong with our shooting style. You won't find the cure in a shotshell.
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Oh my, this is enough to make me actually miss 16gg……….say, could you possibly be 16gg??!! 
All ‘well and good’ at a glance, HuntNnut, but I’d feel better if your ‘theorem’ could be substantiated scientifically. Especially since a number of us would likely rather have properly-sized pellets in a uniformly-distributed shot swarm delivered over a broader 30 inches at the ranges we normally swat our upland birds. Using your preferred 1.8 : 1 core/annular ratio mentioned in an earlier thread on ‘Speed vs. Velocity’…..we’d be relying on just ¾ oz. of shot out of a full 1-1/8th oz. load to do the entire work of killing, and shouldn’t be expecting any help from the remaining 3/8th oz. of your mentioned “golden BB’s” in the annular portion.
Under that premise, wouldn’t we possibly be better equipped with a light ¾ oz. charge out of the tightest choked gun possible – regardless of gauge - if we’re only benefiting from a 20” core? But then, wouldn’t we have a lot of overly shot- up birds in many upland instances by “keep(ing) the pellets in the 20” core where they belong.”? Your mentioned 1.8:1 core/annular ratio of strikes does have merit, I’d think, for a long-range upland/waterfowl load or trapshooting where slight pointing errors become compounded, but it leaves me questioning the effects on most upland species inside 25 yards……assuming we intend to eat them.
Truth is, shooters stumbling afield do not point-out a shotgun so perfectly each and every time to where the benefits of the annular pellet strikes are negated……..and though we all strive to center birds well enough afield to not even need a bird dog…..we indeed do at times. I suspect that were much practice, sound technique, and 20" cores the total answers, then even dedicated skeet shooters – who get in as much practice as any group I can think of (on grooved targets with pre-mounted guns even) could simply use modified or full chokes to shoot the same scores as presently. You can bet that even the best of them have to rely on the annular strikes on occasion to stay at the percentages that they do. Or can you, because that can't be persuasively substantiated either?
So, not to be too contrary, I’m going to vote for much practice – and a payload that provides a uniformly dense distribution of pellets within a practical 30 inch circle, at the most common yardage where one’s game might be taken.
All Best,
Robert |
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| Posted:
Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:18 pm
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Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 1975
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Robert
Sounds familiar to you also?   |
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