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Member Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 1257 Location: Nebraska

I look forward to the smaller shot versions of these as well, the shot charge weight is part of what I use to select shot size. For targets I load #8's most often, with 8.5's or 9's as availability dictates, 7/8oz in 12ga, 7/8oz or 3/4oz in 16. If I'm loading up 8's for quail I stick with 7/8oz, otherwise 7's or 6's are 1oz and 5's are 1 1/8oz.

There are some here in Nebraska hunting pheasants with sub-1oz loads of 5's, shooting over points and a bit more accurately than I, but I've drawn the line with 5's at 1oz. It might not really matter that much after all, except for what I can make myself believe...with the short pellet count I feel a lot better with at least the ounce. When I checked out a variety of chokes with reloads of #5's, I found that Full choke patterns came in by .015" of constriction. Seeing those patterns on paper made me aware of the potential for patchiness, the cure seems to be high enough pellet count. If I tracked 20" cores, I didn't keep the data.

Going to hard 7's and less choke should look very effective at the 1oz and 7/8oz level, 7.5's at 3/4oz should show high target-shooting potential.

Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 960

It rained hard here today, no Sporting Clays, so I counted pellets, I hope you guys know that these are the last patterns from me, I HATE counting pellets. Laughing

I haven't counted pellets since 2002 and I hope I don't again for another 7 years. Laughing

I posted one load back on the original post.

I messed up on the 7/8 oz. #7 1/2 load with .010 choke at 30 yards, I deleted the picture, but I did get the numbers.

I did not pattern the 3/4 oz. load as I can't use the load in my 1100. I did try .005 choke but the patterns were lacking at 30 yards so I tossed them out. The 1 oz. and 7/8 oz loads were exactly the same as I used in the first post, I did substitute #7 1/2 shot for the #6's I originally used.

Date - September 26, 2009
Temp - 75 degrees F - Wind SE @ 5 - 10 MPH
Gun - Rem 1100 16 Gauge 28" Barrel, Ported, 1.5" forcing cone
Choke - .010 (actual constriction in relation to bore) Briley Thin Wall
Distance - 30 yards Measured

Averages of 3 patterns for Load #1 (1oz #7 1/2)

Core - 131
Annular - 98
Total - 229
70% 1.3 to 1 C to A Ratio
Total Pellet count in Load 328 actual count (.0965 average pellet size)

Averages of 3 patterns for Load #2 ( 7/8 #7 1/2) (no picture)

Core - 105
Annular - 88
Total - 198
67% 1.2 to 1 C to A Ratio
Total Pellet count in Load 287 actual count (.0965 average pellet size)

The last 2 patterns are 50 yd .037 choke of the original 3/4 oz. and 7/8 oz. #6 loads just for kicks, Slidehammer asked. Not sure these loads really wanted .037, when I feel like torturing myself I will try patterning the loads with my .019 Modified choke and #7's just for fun, maybe even slow the loads down to 1300 FPS and see what happens. BUT it won't be anytime soon. Laughing

I will use the 7/8 oz load of #7s(not 7 1/2's) for hunting in CT on these barnyard birds we have. I will let you know in a few weeks what I think. This is basically a FAST 20 gauge load I don't see how it can miss, but stranger things have happened. The one ounce load with #7 1/2 does look nice.

After all this, I am just wondering why we really want to go lighter except for recoil reasons. It is pretty obvious that any of these loads will kill a rooster out to at least 40 yards, but why do I want to have a 28 gauge 16 Gauge?

I will use the 7/8 oz. for clay targets, but I have reservations for ME using these light loads on wild pheasants. Time will tell.

Nice job on the pix , Mark . It is always the worst job doing the counting ! Way back a million yrs ago , roosters were many in the Rochester area and the 1st gun I BOUGHT was a 16ga m12 , F.C. The main shells at the time were 23/4-11/8 6's - they poleaxed those roosters . Didn't know a darn thing about short chambers and the like . (had several - didn't matter )Bought cases of those shells and still have some . Don't have the roosters though (now) and as sporting and skeet have taken over - moved to the light stuff . I think you are quite correct on your results and confirms what others say generally that 7/8 and lighter is great for targets - may still need more horsepower for general game taking . Do still like 7 and smaller to fill the pattern , but those old 6's (1165 fps) still hammer if the occasion arrises . bill

Member Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 1257 Location: Nebraska

Mark, the guys out here shooting wild pheasants with 7/8oz of 5's over pointing dogs are getting good results. If you mean preserve pheasants when you say barnyard birds, I think 7/8oz of 7's will be plenty. I shoot 1oz of 7's at pointed wild pheasants in Iowa and am pleased with the results.

I don't get why you look at your load combination as being a 28ga 16 gauge, maybe think of it as a late 1800's/early-1900's 16ga?

Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 960

kgb,

Old habits die hard I guess, I have been using 7/8 oz of #7.5 and really like to break targets with them. To the point where I shot up all my 1 oz loads and don't use them anymore. I just don't have confidence in that 7/8 oz load on wild roosters.

I have pointing dogs, so when I go to Nebraska, I get the typical 25 to 35 yard shot. Have always used .015 choke. What choke are you folks using for the 7/8 oz. of #5's?

While I don't shoot at preserves, all pheasants in CT are pen raised. I met this fella from Iowa he called them 'barnyard pheasants' and the name stuck, after I stopped laughing.

deer hunter,

I have used 1 1/8 oz of 6's for a long time, and they do kill roosters clean.

Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 960

So far, I have been having mixed results with the 7/8 oz load of #7's. I almost put them away, then I got to thinking about what the differences might be between what I have used for loads and the 7/8 oz loads.

The real difference is the velocity, about 140 FPS higher with the 7/8 oz loads. So I slowed them down a bit. Now the velocity is almost identical to my normal loads.

So far so good, but let's see what happens.

This is indeed interesting. Thanks Mark. After processing this info, I'm coming away with the conclusion that 7/8 oz. 8's or 9's is awesome for targets, as I and most others here have experienced. And similarly, for hunting, 1 oz. of 6's or 7's in a light modified right barrel, and 1 1/8 oz. 6's in a modified left would be deadly for just about anything out to 40 yds., or maybe 45 yds with full choke and 1 1/8 oz. 5's. This pretty much confirms what we expected and have experienced all along. We keep thinking we are going to re-invent the wheel, but all we're really doing is showing how great a design the wheel really is.

Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 960

OK

I have stopped fooling around with different loads. Without question FOR ME load #4 of my first post is da' winna'.

I was sure that I would see some good results from the lighter loads. I shot 20 birds so far this season and without a doubt in my mind the 1 1/8 oz. of #6's worked noticably better. Even had a crossing bird at 52 paces, taken with one shot and the heavier load.

No more experimenting I know what works best for me.

The results from the 3/4 ounce, #6 shot load is typical of the results I've gotten. As long as the shot used is round and hard, these "ultra square" loads tend to pattern evenly out to past 30 yards regardless of choke. Even skeet choke does not open them up as much as some folks might assume it would. The trade off is a lack of annular ring. The pattern must be centered well on target to insure a bird in your vest.

This phenomenon also tends to explain why the 12 ga 24 gram load has proven to be so effective for trap shooting. The patterns are not wide but they carry up extremely well out past 35 yards and crush well centered clay targets even from the back fence.

Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 960

Something I didn't make clear,

The lighter 7/8 oz. loads of #7's did kill barnyard pheasants, just fine from 20 to 35 yards. No real issues except I did lose a bird, my poor shooting more than anything. (Losing that bird really frosted me, a lot!!! Embarassed

I mumbled about that for the rest of the hunt and mother blankity blanked the light loads. If any of you were with me you would have been grinning and giving me the red-a**. Nothing upsets me more than having the dog do some good work, pin the bird, only to have me be the weak link, and miss.)

Anyway... the 1 1/8oz. load of #6's made the more positive, dead in the air hits that I am looking for. Since recoil is a non-issue, the lighter loads from my perspective are taking a step backward.

Joined: 03 Nov 2009 Posts: 10

I've been reading this stuff as a lurker for sometime now, and have been confused by those who somehow think 1/2 ounce, or 5/8 ounce, or 3/4 ounce, or some other sub weight load with smaller shot traveling at higher velocities is going to be better than a standard 1 or 1 1/8 oz. load of 5s or 6s in a 16 gauge going at a moderate speed when shooting larger birds such as pheasants.

Just because a load (any given payload weight and size pellet) can kill a pheasant (or whatever) at a given yardage, does not mean it's optimum or even a standard to use as a benchmark. Some of the material that's been posted here over the past few months is really crazy.

If the recoil from a 1250 fps 1 ounce or 1 1/8 ounce load when shootiong 5 to 10 shells a day over a period of time is going to bother you, then you might want to look at your gun's overall weight and how it (doesn't) fits you.

Smaller, band yard pest birds aren't gamebirds, and the data gathered on what load works for them doesn't correspond much at all to what's going on with larger birds like pheasants.

Each load type has its uses. If we recognize the adavantages and limitations of each, then we can figure out which might be best for a certain use.

I use 1 and 1-1/8 ounce 16 ga loads for most pheasant hunting situations. However, I've blown tight sitting stocked birds over dogs to hell with 1 ounce loads when the shot must be delivered right now. A 3/4 ounce load of hard number 6 shot will dump a tight holding in close pheasant in heavy cover or trees very nicely without tearing it all to hell. The second barrel is loaded with the full magilla for the second or longer shots if its needed.

a fast stepping 7/8 ounces of #7 pigeon shot will do nicely for most stocked roosters at moderate ranges and is a great grouse load as well. I've found the two birds almost sitting next to each other in the scrub oak and pines on Cape Cod. One load for either bird. Makes it simple.

I also resort to 1-1/4 ounce baby magnums when the birds are not holding and the ranges are longer. I've not yet found any load to equal a 1250 FPS, 1-1/4 ounce load of hard #4 shot to dump roosters out at the far side of 40 yards. A load of #5 shot is no slouch either, but the 4's just hammer birds for keeps every time the shot is on the money.

I use 3/4 ounce loads for target work exclusively. No recoil and lots of practice makes a fellow a good shot in time. Lots of recoil will make a flincher out of anyone in no time.

A load is nothing but a tool. Learn to use them all for the right job, and learn to use them well is my motto.

Joined: 03 Nov 2009 Posts: 10

I play around a bit with my loads depending on what's going on with the birds, weather, general hunting conditions, dogs, etc.

But I still don't get to select exactly the way I'm going to be presented with a shot opportunity, and if a close bird gets up and I'm loaded with an ounce or more of shot, the simple answer is to let it get out a bit.

I'm going out prepared to handle the hardest shot I might take, and not get caught up in the easiest. Sometimes theory and reality are miles apart.

Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 960

Crowbar,

I think what you have to keep in mind is that everyone has a different idea of what they are looking for. Some guys figure as long as the dog retrieved the bird that is fine, then there are guys like me that want it dead in the air with an exclamation point.

Then there are guys that have fantastic shooting abilities, they can do some stuff that the rest of us average shooters would struggle with.

Then you have some other folks that like light guns, and some of those guns are older. If you feed those guns heavier loads you are going to beat up the shooter and the wood on that old gun.

I don't personally agree with all of the above, but there are reaons for the use of lighter loads.

I am of the mind that if I wanted to shoot a 28 ga shotgun I would buy one. Since I shoot a 16 Gauge exclusively for hunting I want it to act like a 16 Gauge.

The saying goes, "carries like a 20 hits like a 12", not carries like a 20 and hits like a 28.

Out where the sky is endless and the Earth is flat and goes on forever, we sometimes have the time and the luxury of letting a bird "get out". Try that in the scrub oak and pines or in thick tangled cover and all you'll shoot is bushes and trees. Then you get to explain to the dog who just crawled through a 100 yards of scrub oak and raspberry bushes to point one for you why you missed. I guess you just have to be there.