16ga.com ~ View topic

Joined: 20 Mar 2009 Posts: 428

ss,

I am still looking for the article in my old shotgun sports magazines, but in case you are wwondering --- I did not make this stuff up! I have read many other articles stating the same thing. Now, feel free to call it "BS" if you so desire, but do not question my integrity. I didn't make this up.

Again, I did not write the article, but I did read it.

The 1 ounce load is a "proportionate" load for the 16 Ga. bore. I did not say that it would outperform a similar "proportionate" 1-1/8 ounce load in the 12 bore. What I said was that "given the same 1 ounce load, that the ballistican indicated that the 16 bore would put more bb's on the target simultaneously than would the 12 bore with the same 1 ounce payload". It has to do with the length of the shot column vs. bore diameter as I stated previously (your square load).

Hope this clarifies any questions you may have had.

If you prefer the 12 bore with a 1 ounce load ----- GO FOR IT! Everyone has a right to their own opinion. I stated mine. Very Happy

I'm not sure I even want to enter this emerging fray--

Dan, SS I'm not sure there is much difference in your opinions. The same 1oz load in 16 or 12 should deliver a similar pattern as the load is squarish. the 1 1/8 in a 12 is fine but in a 16 because of the overly long column your pattern effiencies suffer. Taken to the extreme is the .410/67g. Very long shot column and you have terrible patterns and not enough shot on target to do a good job.

Based upon what I have read in the literature, here, and other boards the "squarish" load is about as good as it can get with max load and max efficiency of that load. Column getting shorter is not a problem, infact can provide very nice, low recoil (felt and real), effective patterns. Evidence 1 oz in a 12, 3/4 in a 16. Even 5/8 in a 16 can produce very deadly patterns. And I am no more than an average shot at best.

It seems to me, that to push too much shot down a pipe (i.e. overly long column) no matter the speed, you just loose effectiveness, and it may hurt your shoulder. I'm looking for the most efficient loads, in most info that I have seen and experienced some thing close to square is the best all round. Just like for me the 16 is the best all round. Weight, Effective load capacities, aesthetics, etc.

Don't even get me started on the 3 1/2 12g. Thank God I was able to sell mine! Bought it when I was a younger and dumber Duck hunter.

Any way- All the best,

ash

Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 960

Comparing a smaller gauge to a larger gauge is foolish.

All things being equal the larger gauge will always have better external ballistics.

Stop reading magazine articles, they are almost always written to entertain us, and almost never to enlighten us.

Joined: 20 Mar 2009 Posts: 428

rr,

Are we trying to start a pissing match here? If we are,let me respond by adding that "reading enhances the mind's capacity to understand" Idea

.

If a pissing match was not your intent, then let me respond by saying that "everyone has to make that determination for themselves". Wink

BTW, it is not foolish to compare anything in order to be subjective and to be conclusive.

Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 960

KD,

Not attacking anyone, my response was to shootingsioux's opening post. My post was in no way directed at you, and I don't want to start a pissing contest.

Sorry you took offense.

I do stand behind my statement about comparing gauges. It is a waste of time. Each gauge has its own limitations and strong points. I am an absolute 16 Gauge nut, but the 16 Gauge cannot be compared ballistically to a 12 gauge and come out on top.

Joined: 20 Mar 2009 Posts: 428

rr,

Sorry I took it the wrong way (under a lot of stress lately). I'm glad that we do have the love of the 16 Ga. in common though. It is a great shotgun Exclamation

Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 960

KD

No problem brother, I should have directed my post better.

"Square Load"...

"Load" = We all either load or shoot a load of another.

"Square"

1. A tool

2. A rectangle with four sides equal

3. A long piece of wood or metal with a square shape or profile

4. The product of a number multiplied by itself.

5. In a fair open manner.

6. Being perpendicular to another piece.

7. To longitudinally collapse in a straight and even manner.

8. A healthy meal with your necessary vitimins.

9. To regulate or adjust.

10. A conventional person set in his ways against change.

11. A mythical gauge to shot weight amount that patterns best!

See!!! Something for everyone!

I consider things in my shotshell patterns which haven't even been mentioned on this site yet..

Yet I have seen no concrete evidence of a "square" load....

I've learned never to condemn any load either as to patterns... For many decades I said the 3" .410 was useless. Doesn't pattern worth a ****! I should have said I've never seen it pattern worth a whatever!

We had a .410 only feral pigeon competition set. I was up against some pros,,,
So I develop (Ha! I put a load together!) 3" Compression-formed, Max load of 296. A Federal shotcup and 11/16oz of hard 7's. I roll crimped them mainly to have a "7" on the topwad! That load patterns!!!!. Looks as good as a 20ga. Round, well saturated.... And boy does it "do" pigeons! Even at 35yds!

It anything but square.... but don't tell the pigeons!!

Slidehammer

All one needs to do is download the Alliant Reloading Guide and see the picture of what a one ounce load in each gauge looks like. The 16 is longer than it is wide, the 12 gauge is shorter than it is wide. This is pretty self explanatory to me. The one ounce load in the 16 is not "square", although possibly after setback I suppose.

ya'll may be too young to remember herter's stuff - they used to catalog a round bottomed trap wad designed i believe to try to eliminate flyers - what we need to do is veer off this course and persue the ideal egg shaped load !

Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Posts: 118 Location: N.Y.

Member Joined: 05 Nov 2005 Posts: 22 Location: Texas

Fellas,
Whatever your own results, I had a fantastic opening weekend in South Texas with my dad's old Sportsman 58 16 gauge. I was shooting 1 oz loads with Longshot handloads and had a great percentage, about 25 percent, whitewing and mourning doves. I had to shoot a 12 gauge Beretta O/U the first day because of a malfuntion with a buddy's gun the first day, but I switched to the 58 as soon as I could, and I thoroughly enjoyed the rest of the weekend with the 16. The one oz load is the way to go, with the 16. Also, no noticable recoil or loudness.

Jack

Joined: 20 Mar 2009 Posts: 428

I agree with you Jack. Give me a 16 Ga. with 1 oz. loads any day over the 1-1/8 oz. 12's at least for most birds! Wink

When I was a Cub Scout the oath of this organization included a line where I promised "to be square and to obey the law of the Pack. ". So I guess I have to use these square loads or risk breaking my word. Wink