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whtlghtng
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:45 pm  Reply with quote
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I would still rather bird hunt with Dick Cheney than go for a ride in Ted Kennedy's car!
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:42 am  Reply with quote
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The doctors claimed it was a pellet migrating into the heart that caused a silent heart arythmea. It was so mild that it would have gone unnoticed if Whittington were not hooked up to a monitor. Even Whittington did not feel it.

Actually what happened was the poor guy had a bad dream that he was being forced into stealth hunting pheasants with Kerry and they were all going to ride out in Teddy's car. A nightmare like that would give me the heebee jeebees too. Laughing 16GG.
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bigric
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:04 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 79
Location: Round Rock, TX

The press is now reporting that the shot size was 5mm and that there are typically 150-200 of these in a shell. I don't know a lot of people who hunt with buckshot in a 28 guage, and I had no idea you could stuff that much in a shell Rolling Eyes
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Scolari
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:19 am  Reply with quote
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I wonder what kind of gun it was? I bet it was a Beretta. I wonder if they will make a model with his name on it.
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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:24 am  Reply with quote
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Location: Glendale, AZ

We've all had some fun with this and are not suprised by the stunning display of cluelessness and self-absorption by the histrionics of the media BUT the victim's cardiac problems are NOT a 'no big deal' issue. It is impressive, and should get all of our attention, that a ?#8 pellet could penetrate at least a shirt and possible vest, the pectoralis (chest) muscle, and make it through the pericardium to the heart muscle. The 'shootee' had a myocardial contusion (bruise) with the release of heart muscle enzymes indicating some damage to the muscle (but NOT a 'heart attack' and apparently had a cardiac cath with nl arteries) Related to this 'bruise' and possible mechanical irritation from the pellet, he developed atrial fibrillation which can cause blood clots to form within the atrium (the chamber above the pumping chamber) which can cause a STROKE-a very big deal. Usually a blood thinner is given to prevent these clots but doing so could be associated with a risk of life threatening bleeding with all the birdshot in his chest and neck.
Cheney's interview yesterday showed him to be the honorable gentleman
that he is but we should still be concerned about the outcome/recovery for the shootee. I had a guy about 50 yds away take a single #6 pellet in the neck from my gun while hunting sage grouse in WY-simply a stray pellet shot toward a bird between us but it was still my shot and my fault. Thank God it just broke the skin but had it hit his carotid artery, he could have died in a matter of minutes.
Sorry for the rant once again and I know those of us who've hunted for awhile fully understand how serious this is.
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:10 am  Reply with quote
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Thanks for the heads up Revdoc. We need someone who knows what the hell is going on.

The range of spin that has been put on this incident starts from the far right side and goes clear across to the far left. This is so typical of all the bullshit fed us from both sides and the middle that its a wonder we even know where our own asses are. it proves that our media is a bad joke. we might as well be Martians.

Yesterday morning, I watched an early AM tv report given by a talking head claiming to be a doctor from NY. He stated that the so called heart attack was not as such but a very mild arythmia which happened in victim's sleep. Supposedly, it was so mild that it would have gone unnoticed but for the monitoring machines. He claimed it was from a piece of shot that migrated or moved into contact with the heart. He stated that it was not life threatening but would be monitored. In short, not big deal. Now I realize he was probably some Republican stooge hired to downplay the matter.

On the other side, we have the lunitic fringe of the left claiming that all guns should be banned and that Cheney is a monster who murders small birds and children with buckshot and who should be dragged out on the White house lawn, pilleried, drawn and quartered.

Everywhere in between, every political figure, hopeful, or has been has jumped on the stage with their spin for their own purposes. it has become so nauseating that most people just tune it out and hope it all goes away, the sooner, the better. No matter what Mr Cheney says now, its too late. Few folks are willing to listen to any more of this. He should have come to the front much sooner and talked straight.

Here Revdoc, I disagree. Cheney pissed away any honor he had a long time ago. He and his cronies have been lining their pockets with war profits for the last few years. One look at how this war has been funded and administered has shown it to be nothing but another military/industrial complex shakedown. He has been right in there grabbiong for all he's worth.

Unfortunately for us, the democrats are pissed off, not because it is corrupt and self destructive, but because so many have been excluded from the feeding frenzy. The next election will either keep the situation as status quo, or swap out the crooks for another set. The corruption and suffering will go on until there is no more good excuses left to continue the war. Then they'll start another. This will continue until we as a people are bled white and the system collapses from the economic pressure and debt we continue to incur. Look at 18th century France. That is our future staring us right in the face.The parallels are all there and the similarity is terrifying.

Its no wonder we have become so apathetic about our political and electoral process. We've been bludqeoned by bullshit to the point that we are now numb. We have become numb to the system and numb to each others pains and problems. The whole damned system needs a serious overhaul. That starts with a hard look at where we are now and what must be done to salvage our way of life before we simply implode as a society.

We should demand a constitutional convention, get term limits and controls on the creeps who haunt the capital--sack the bastards, scrape the accumulated filth and corruption off our system, throw the frigging vampires sucking us dry off our backs, and take our way of life back as a people. The whole thing stinks. Nuff said. 16GG


Last edited by 16gaugeguy on Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:15 am  Reply with quote
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In his interview with FoxNews yesterday, Cheney gave as good an explanation for why he hunts as could be said when asked if he's stop hunting: "I love hunting and it's part of who I am." Almost as poignant as Gene Hill's "When a man goes hunting, what he hunts is himself"
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bigric
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:58 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 26 Dec 2005
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Location: Round Rock, TX

For whoever asked, here's the TPWD accident report:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/images/02/14/CheneyAccidentReport.ap.pdf

It was a Perazzi 28ga, shooting factory 7-1/2 ammo. I sent a nasty email to CNN yesterday afternoon about their claim that there were 150-200 5mm pellets in the shell and that they seriously needed to review their facts. A few hours later, all the specifics about the ammo were gone. Perhaps I wasn't the only one who mentioned it.
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:33 pm  Reply with quote
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CNN = clowns, nitwits, numskulls to the tenth power. But its just more of the bullshit spin the media and their political cronies love to put on anything. Aren't you tired of it? Aren't we all.


The simple truth: Cheney was not properly licenced to hunt in Texas. He admitted to have some beer prior to hunting (amount unknown.) He lost contact with a hunting buddy and did not reestablish the man's location before shooting again. He swung past the no shoot line to the rear on a flushing bird, and in spite of the man wearing blaze orange and being only 30 yards away, he pulled the trigger. This is one careless, arrogant SOB in my book.

In spite of all this, he will probably get a pass. If anyone in my state pulled this crap, we'd be thrown under the jail, our Firearms FID card or LTC would be pulled, the cops would confiscate every gun we owned, and we'd end up paying at least 15K in fines, legal fees, and court costs. God help us if the victim died. Then there would be the civil suit which would strip us of everything else of value.

I would not hunt with this guy. I would not hunt with anyone this careless. I value my friends, my dog, my guns, and my freedom way too much. i pick my hunting pals accordingly. How about the rest of you guys? Would you hunt with a jerk like this?
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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:00 pm  Reply with quote
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Good work with CNN bigric and thank you for the copy of the actual accident report. It appears the victim was wearing a vest (light cotton? waxed Filson style?) but from the distribution of the pellets, some apparently struck left/mid-chest likely missing both the vest material and the sternum (breast bone which would not likely have been penetrated). 7and 1/2s retain more power than 8s but I'm still chilled regarding the depth of penetration from a reported 30 yd shot. Whittington could well have suffered a pneumothorax (punctured lung) or hemothorax (bleeding in the lung) in the field which also could have been life-threatening. Things could have turned out MUCH worse and he's not yet out of danger.
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SageRat
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:10 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Jan 2006
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It appears to me that this board and the public gets too worked up over an "accident". And that is what it is. No more and no less. How does it differ from a car accident we might have when our attentions are not on the task at hand. Because he is a dignitary, he will be raked over the coals for as long as he lives. It is nothing more than the news media absolutely hates the man and the administration.

We all have accidents, some are minor and some fatal. We are usually excused because it is an accident. I don't believe this is a political forum, but you may think as you like about Cheney.


SageRat
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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:20 pm  Reply with quote
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During the FoxNews interview, Cheney said he had 'one beer with lunch' It is not clear exactly how much later the accident occured.
The forum on GunShop.com has been brutal on Cheney.
I wasn't there and I've made mistakes in the field myself and thank God things turned out OK and am willing to let the memory of this be Cheney's 'punishment' (and whatever civil suit Whittington's family brings)
I've also stood in horror watching a 'friend' almost shoot my first setter as mud exploded 3 feet in front of the dog's head when he pulled the trigger on a covey that flew DOWN into a field from a slightly elevated fenceline where they were pointed. This, 30 min after my lecture on ONLY shooting UP in the air at birds.
We've all probably hunted long enough that we pick our hunting partners carefully. Some of the mass KS, S. Dakota military pheasant drives have scared me to death and I stopped hunted opening day yrs ago. At the same time, some friend or relative took us out for our first hunt and I thank them for that act of grace and trust.
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Ron Overberg
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:52 pm  Reply with quote
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I have enjoyed 16gaugeguys info and some of his shooting insight. This said, I find his condemnation of a man where the only source of information is slanted one way or the other doesn't do anyone justice. We in the shooting arena may go our entire life without having an accident. Cheney has hunted for a life time and now has had an accident.We pride ourself in our ability to shoot safely and are constantly aware of the danger and laws governing our sport. The fact you are aware of the laws of Mass. is good. They don't apply in Texas or many other of the western states which may be considered a good thing by some. The laws of Texas in this case were not violated or so it has been reported. As for me, I only hunt with people I am very close to because they are the ones I know first hand about. I might even be able to hunt with Cheney or you but it would take more one on one time for me to decide to hunt or not to hunt with either of you. I have found other peoples perception may or may not be mine as far as safety goes.
Safe shooting,
Ron
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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:09 pm  Reply with quote
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Fox News today reported that the group broke for lunch (but did not indicate the time) then resumed hunting at 3:00 and that the shooting occurred at 5:30. Very unlikely the one beer at lunch contributed but the low sun may well have.
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:11 am  Reply with quote
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My condemnation of this man's attitude toward hunting and life in general goes way beyond hunting. Cheney appears to have reached the point where he thinks he is a law unto himself. he's gotten that way from walking the halls of power for too long. He has become corrupted. He suffers from the same blind arrogance so many of our career politicians suffer from.

Look at the incident report Bigric posted. Cheney was not properly licenced to hunt. He should not have even been out there. He had a beer. How many times have you folks heard the saying "last shot, then first beer." it is not the amount. it is the principal. Don't drink and shoot, period. Whittington was catching up to the group after searching for a bird he'd shot. The group should have been helping him find his bird. they left him behind instead. How many times have you all been warned to know where everyone in your shooting party is before firing at anything. Cheney swung on a bird that flew past the safety line we have all been taught to never cross. These are the very basics of safe hunting we've had drilled into us since we were kids. But Cheney seems to have forgotten all of them.

This man is supposed to be our second in command. If Bush died, Cheney would be president. He, like all national leaders is supposed to set the mark for how we conduct ourselves through life. He should be held to a high standard. He represents the executive power, the prosecutor and upholder of the law. Yet the man showed disregard not only for Texas game laws, but the simpleset, most easily understood rules of safe hunting.

Have we become so blas'e to the unacceptable behavior of our leaders to the point now that we start making excuses for them. If this is the case, then this nation and all we should hold dear will fall of its own corruption. God help us then, for we cannot help ourselves.

Condemn me if you wish for harboring a deep resentment of the callous disregard of simple and easily understood rights and wrongs we witness of our national leaders almost daily now. I have lived to see a Mass senator get away with murder. I've lived to see many of my friends die for no good reason in one thouroghly corrupt war, something no American should have had to see, and certainly not die for. I have lived to see a president turn the oval office into a private bordello. I have witnessed the murder of innocents at the hands of an overly aggressive, uncontrolled national police force. Now I have witnessed our leaders turn a just national cause, the Iraq war, into a feeding frenzy of profiteers and corrupt politicos. I am witnessing the deaths of the sons and daughters of the survivers of the last corrupt war for the financial benefit of the same greedy players in this one.

Condemn me if you wish for speaking out at what I see as wrong, very wrong, but for your own sake and this nation's sake, wake up before it is too late to change the course we are now on. your childern and your childrens' children will surely suffer much more if we don't. 16GG


Last edited by 16gaugeguy on Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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