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dannypratt
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:46 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 21 Dec 2005
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Location: Napoleon, MI

Ok guys,
Not to beat a dead and crippled horse, but here you go.

When mr Cheney was out in the field and his "buddy" decided to go and find a downed bird, that's it, the hunt stops until the guy returns. There is no other way to do it, one of the first and primary rules is to know your target and safety zones and thier boundaries at all times. Period. A man walks away from the hunting party, I don't care if Elmer Keith or Gene Hill are still behind in the party, the hunt STOPS. Anything else is unnacceptable, because this ( what happened ) is the result. If it was me that had pulled the trigger in an act of pure stupidity, w/o a proper license and had shot one of my friends, the DNR or State Police would take my expensive 16ga. and throw me in jail for the night or if they did let me go home, I would undoubtdly lose my right to hunt and my right to carry concealed for a long time, along w/ fines and everything else. This guy screwed up bad, I don't care his political party or his rank. He is a fool for what he did and by the way he isn't a life long hunter, he stated on fox he has been hunting for the last 13-15 years. Which is fine, but it does not add up to lifelong. He should lose his Perazzi and get fined appropriately. He is a shameful example to hunters as is anyone who pulls a trick like that. A stray pellet is one thing, but proper safety in the field is paramount at all times. I'm sorry but this is inexcusable behavior, as well as the bad media reporting it. Accidents do happen but this could have clearly been avoided. I am very dissapointed to say the least.
-danny
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clayflingythingy
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:09 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 311

AMEN!
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:36 am  Reply with quote
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Danny, you are right on target. If one of my hunting buddies downed a bird and had to drop behind to find it, I'd be right there to help him. My gun would be opened too until we found it, or determined it was unfindable and we moved on together. It is safe, it is courteous, and it is the conservative and proper thing to do. Its what people who care about the other guy do.

I've often helped other hunters I did not know find a bird they'd hit with the help of my dog. It's good practice for the dog who also happens to love doing it, and I've made some good friends too. What is 10 minutes or so to give to another hunter who could use the help.It is what sportsmanship and hunting is all about. It just makes the world a better place.

My comments about Cheney have nothing to do with Republican or Demopcratic leanings. They are not even politically based. They are simply based on what is right and what is wrong. Apparently, Cheney suffers from the same blind arrogance that so many of our national leaders suffer from. It comes from being in power for too long. It comes from having to make deals and compromise one's sense of right and wrong so much over so long a period of time for an entire nation of strangers who always seem ungrateful. After a while, the individual loses his or her way and becomes hardened, loyal only to those close to him or her and self-serving. Its why power corrupts, especially in a democratic process like ours. Its why long term public office is self defeating. Its why we need term limits.

I'm fairly certain at one time, Dick Cheney cared more about the people he represented and tried to do the right thing. After long years in political life, he's lost his way. Maybe he doesn't see it, but his actions and the policies he has followed and the business deals he's done in the past 10 years show it. He has compromized his own sense of decency to the point where the word is now meaningless to him. Its time he moved on to other things. maybe this incident will open his eyes to how self-centered he's become. If so, some good might come of it. One can only hope. 16GG.
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hoashooter
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:01 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 08 Nov 2005
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Location: Illinois

You honestly expect a politician to think about someone else Question Question Question Question Question
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:13 am  Reply with quote
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That is their job.
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John Molnar
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:18 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 24
Location: Maryland

I feel bad for VP Cheney. I don't wish that on anyone. I would rather be shot then to accidentally shoot someone... Can you imagine inside of 1 second you go from participating in a hobby that you love and lives in your soul to abject terror??

He's got to embarrassed and hart sick.. I don't think he will hunt again... I hope and pray that he does.. Like I wrote I don't wish that on anyone....
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:48 am  Reply with quote
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Frankly, I do not quite understand why folks feel so bad for the VP in this case. I feel far worse for the poor guy that got shot. I hope that if Cheney ever hunts again, he reviews the rules of safe hunting. If he can't do better than this, then its a blessing he chooses not too.

This tragedy did not have to happen. The police report says it all. It was carelessness plain and simple. I'm also frankly a bit ticked off that the VP got a pass. The average hunter would have been cited for hunting without a license and probably reckless endangerment with a firearm. Ok, Cheney is publicly embarrassed. He damned sure should be. He should also have to stand before a judge for what he did. You or I would have to. Why not him?

Think of it this way. How would you feel if it was your father, your brother, your son, or a close friend who Cheney shot. I hope the lesson taken from this sorry episode is not to have sympathy for a man who commited a careless, and injurious act, but to hunt safely and demand the same from others so that nobody gets shot from carelessness. This way, we all get a pass. I'm done with this..16GG.
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Wolfchief
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:52 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 782
Location: Indiana

16 gaugeguy, I hope you never make a mistake...and if you do, I hope the spectators will be more forgiving than you ! The kind of accident you have been castigating Cheney for, for the last week, could happen to ANY ONE OF US in the blink of an eye!! I just today sat through a 10 hour Hunter Safety Course with my daughter and the videos of accident "victims" (both perpetrator AND the injured) were just heartbreaking to watch. NO one on this earth is perfect ! Certainly, the fool who wandered into the line of fire unannounced was not blameless either. It's so very typical of a lawyer....

As I've seen others write on this forum---I really don't have a dog in this fight, and Cheney sure proved he doesn't walk on water, but I just can't help thinking, there but for the grace of God....

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One Man with Courage is a Majority
---Andrew Jackson
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XVIgauge
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:51 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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Sorry fellas, but I have to agree with 16gaugeguy on this one.
XVI

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"Terror lies not in the bang, but in the anticipation of it."
Alfred Hitchcock
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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 11:11 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 28 Dec 2005
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Location: Glendale, AZ

My goodness gentlemen-hasn't this been debated adequately in the 'VP shooting' thread? Confused And 16GG-this would be the SECOND time you've 'been done with this'. Wink
Anyway-I'm certainly done with this.
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Mattkcc
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:01 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 124
Location: Kansas City

I think all the debate is kinda funny. If you ever lived in a rural area hunting accidents are no more interesting then a car accident. I assume most hunters aren't safe and try to avoid them. If you think I'm wrong go to any public hunting area on opening day of deer season and listen to world war III. I know several upland hunters that thought they were safe until they got their GSP x-rayed. Vets I've talked to told me about 60% of older bird dogs have shot in them. If you really want to live dangerously go out in the woods during turkey season. I think the VP is probably about as safe as the average hunter. I also think if you video taped any hunter who thought he was a safe hunter he would be shocked at the mistakes he makes. I take my hunting safety a step farther then most. I include avoiding public hunting areas during dear and turkey season. I try to hunt during the week and avoid the weekend. If there are several cars in the parking area I look for another area to hunt. The guy the VP shot was lucky his friends were there to help him. Every year deer and turkey hunters are shot and left in the woods to die.
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woodsboy
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:13 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 6
Location: North Idaho

A friend of mine asked me if I would bird hunt with the V.P. in light of recent events. Well, I thought about it and decided I probably would but, I wouldn't use MY dogs.

Michael

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Aldo Leopold
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Wolfchief
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:49 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 782
Location: Indiana

Pretty well put, woodsboy.....

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One Man with Courage is a Majority
---Andrew Jackson
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John Molnar
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:20 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 24
Location: Maryland

I know one thing, I would rather be shot in the face by Dick Cheney then Bill Clinton any day of the week.....
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:50 am  Reply with quote
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Wolfchief and others, you and I cannot afford to make these kinds of mistakes. Nor can we condon or pardon them. The consequences are too grave, the effects on lives too far reaching. Not only would your or my life be ruined if we severely injured or killed someone accidentally or carelessly, so would other lives be affected, some for generations.

Auto accidents kill and maim thousands of us every year. If we continue to drive carelessly or under the influence of licquer or drugs, our driving privileges are curtailed or revoked. Just like gun accidents, vehicle accidents are mostly preventable. Unlike hunting and shooting, most of us drive a car because it is necessary. Our pastimes are not necessary. Therefore, they are much more succeptable to public scrutiny and banishment.

If we who hunt and shoot do not police ourselves and our associates, then society surely will. Every time a gun or hunting accident happens, we lose a little more public respect and good will. The more these accidents happen, the faster our rights and privileges will be done away with. To us, our pastimes are important parts of our lives. To the public, they are simply pastimes and not nearly as important as a human life, or even that of a pet's.

Fortunately, hunting accidents are less frequent today than even a few years ago. Thanks to the efforts of those who have promoted and or taught hunting and gun safety, we have actually gained lost ground in many areas. Lets not lose what has been hard won back through carelessness, complacency, indifference, or sympathy. The ultimate price of careless, casual, or misguided attitudes toward gun and hunting safety is no guns and no hunting. You folks think this one over real careful.

PS: I was wrong to state I'm done with this. I hope I never will be. All cheap shots aside. I'll take them in stride if I can prevent just one careless or thoughtless accident from happening. Its well worth it to me. I also would think its worth it to all of you. 16GG
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