16ga.com ~ View topic - Test Results: 1 1/4 oz buffered turkey load w/ Ched 1628 wad

Joined: 23 Jan 2008 Posts: 224

I just got back some more test results from Tom Armbrust. This load is designed for turkeys. It shoots tight. If using #6 shot, a .610 Trulock turkey choke in an invector barrel works great. I have tried #5 shot as well, and it also patterns great in the .610 choke, but does very well in full chokes also. I patterned #4 shot, and you need to open the choke to full or maybe even improved modified (and you are also really reducing you pellet count with #4's).

The load and results are:

Load:
· 1 ¼ oz #6 lead shot (Remington)
· Cheddite Green Hull (8 mm brass) 2 ¾” 16 ga
· Ched209 Primer (What comes in the new hulls)
· 20.5 grains Longshot powder
· Cheddite 1628 wad
· 16 grains MIX 47 Buffer (approx. (1) 2.5cc dipper full)
· (1) 16ga Overshot card (BP OS16)

Velocity(fps): 1121, 1125, 1125 (AVE 1122 ES 4)
Pressure(psi): 10000, 9800, 9800 (AVE 9866 ES 200)

Crimp is 6-point. I wish I could have gotten the velocity higher, but this seems to be the best I can due with a 1 1/4 oz buffered load and still keep pressure in speck. I am extremely pleased with the load consistency.

Thanks.

Nice load! Definitely a modern gun load, but I bet it patterns tight at that low velocity. Dropping back to 1 1/8 oz. and increasing the powder a tad would probably net the same results in the core area (especially since it is buffered), and increase velocity and keep the same pressure at the same time. Just a thought.

Joined: 23 Jan 2008 Posts: 224

I find it interesting that you have had the same experience w/ #4 shot and 16 gauge chokes. I've found that 20 to 24 points of choke works better than anything tighter.

The 16 seems to be the smallest gauge that can successully handle the big pellets well enough to get decent patterns. At least, I've never had any consistant success with a 20 ga and #4 shot. They simply need more bore diameter to flow decently as they leave the muzzle.

Air resistance also has less affect on bigger pellets for two reasons, more inertia and surface area. More inertia allows an object to better overcome any force working against it-- like air resistance. More surface area spreads surface irregularities out and minimizes the effect on trajectory. As a result, bigger pellets track better and do not need as much choke to pattern well.

I wonder if roll crimping would have produced more consistent pressures with the 1 1/8 oz. load? Interesting stuff.

Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 960

UncleDanFan, the short answer is no.

The issue is common with slow powders. A primer change would be a lot more effective.

Really? Why is that?

Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 960

Once you properly crimp a load, that's it. It will only hold back the expanding gases just so long. There is some difference between a fold and a roll crimp, but the differences aren't large enough or consistent enough to favor one over the other all the time, The only issue with crimps is that they must be uniform and for fold crimps 1/16" deep +/- 1/64".

Powder and primer is a whole different ball game. What works fine in one load won't work so great in another load. Why? You would have to ask the chemists that invent the stuff. Typically, the fast powders are less fussy about which primer you use. The moderate powders get a little more finicky and the slow rate powders with the heavier loads like this one may only like one primer. But with a hull or wad change, that might necessitate a primer change. I know this sounds strange but it is true. Not all Primer/Powder matches are made in heaven.

With slow powders you NEED pressure to make them burn completely and consistently. In this case you reduced the payload by 1/8 oz. You might need to put 2-4 grains of powder into that load to bring the pressure back up to where it needs to be. Cheddite Primers aren't the hottest and for this load either a CCI 209M or Federal 209A would be my choice to calm things down. A Winchester 209 might work also. Please be aware that "hot" as far as primers go, is only one aspect. The chemical make up of the primer and the burning gases they produce and where the primer is in relation to the center of the powder charge and the shape of the combustion chamber all have an effect on the consistency of the load.

The only thing consistent about shotshell ballistics is that there are no consistencies. The heavier loads, buffered loads, steel loads with the slow powders make that statement even more on the money.

To confound things even more, you can also throw in the relative heat of the primer flame (incandecent gas) vs. the volume of gas produced (force of the explosion). This is why substituting primers can sometimes have unexpected effects on pressures and velocities of two otherwise identical loads.

Primers with a lot of explosive force but a cooler burning temperature can actually push the powder column forward without igniting it as rapidly as a less forceful, but hotter burning primer. The internal volume of the combustion chmber is increased more rapidly relative to ignition rate of the powder. This can slow the pressure build up to some extent. The relative pressure curve can be flattened and velocities can be lowered as well.

A hotter burning primer that produces less explosive force will sometimes ignite the powder column more effectively w/o blowing it forward as quickly. The powder column is confined to a relatively smaller combustion chamber as it ignites, so pressures can build up more rapidly. The faster pressure build up creates more heat and the powder is consumed more rapidly. The relative pressure curve can be increased, and so can velocities.

Joined: 28 Aug 2014 Posts: 924 Location: Eastern Tennessee

I really hate to ask based on what I've read in the past but can anyone confirm if bow builders load in the op is another name for a current wad? I see graf no longer sells the wad known as 1628 but supposedly this worked very well in .610 turkey choke. I'd like to try it out. I've got every currently sold 16ga wad on hand except the ched 1632.

If not, anyone got 100-250 ched 1628 wads they would sell me?

Joined: 28 Aug 2014 Posts: 924 Location: Eastern Tennessee

I noticed bowbuilder has not been seen around here in some time. I would like to learn from his experiences. If anyone knows him I'd like to contact him.

Thank you.

Make the load faster take out the buffer. No need to buffer #6 shot. Brister said that it gave no significant improvement,just slowed the load down to keep pressure under the limmit

Joined: 28 Aug 2014 Posts: 924 Location: Eastern Tennessee

After talking to Bow I'm pretty sure this load will not work for me since it is for a wad I most likely can't get anymore, but thanks for the info on the buffer. I was excited to learn he was on the same path I have been and wanted to learn what he found worked and what didn't out of the same choke and gun I have been working on. It seems the best path will be either the vp80 or the z16 wad pushing steel or longshot in a cheddite hull. His comments suggested hull melting when using blue dot and I don't have blue dot so that if better for my efforts.