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Rabbitdog
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:09 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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Location: Manhattan, Kansas

This may not be the proper thread for this question but here goes. Did Ruger ever make a 16 ga. Red Label ? If so , what frame ? The Ruger web sight is no help and no one around here seems to know. I have a Red Label in 12 ga. BUT...my dream field gun would be a Red Label 16 built on a 20 ga frame in SS Gray Satin finish. Until I find one I'll have to keep using my Savage Fox "B" in 16 for upland hunting and the Red Label 12 for water foul. Any ideas on a comparable substitute ?
I also wish I could find a 16 ga Barrel for my TC Encore !

Thanks for listening....Rabbitdog
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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:22 pm  Reply with quote
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Welcome Rabbitdog and I bet you've chased more than bunnies around Manhattan-pretty good quail hunting in those parts too. See the 'SHOT show' thread about 20 down-lots of guys feel the same way you do but no previous 16g RL and questionable for the future-see 'SHOT show report thread'.
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fin2feather
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:23 pm  Reply with quote
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Location: Kansas High Plains

Rabbitdog,

Welcome from a fellow Kansan! Sorry, though: no Ruger Red Label 16's were made; 12's, 20's and 28's only.

Fin

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I feel a warm spot in my heart when I meet a man whiling away an afternoon...and stopping to chat with him, hear the sleek lines of his double gun whisper "Sixteen." - Gene Hill, Shotgunner's Notebook
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Rabbitdog
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:03 am  Reply with quote
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Thanks for all the responses. Too bad about Ruger Execs not being too enlighted. Revdocdrew; Quail numbers here in NE Kansas have really droped over the last five years. (Despite what the game experts at KS. Depart. of Wildlife and Parks say) Everyone has their own opinion why, but the most common one is there are too many large groups of Yuppies with hired guides and expensive dogs that will find a single covey and keep busting it up untill there are none left fo next year. I also think that the hugh increase in the Coyote population is taking a serious toll on nests and young.
Thanks again. I really like this forum. Later...Rabbitdog.
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fin2feather
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:18 am  Reply with quote
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Location: Kansas High Plains

Rabbitdog,

All Mike Hayden (director of Parks & Wildlife) cares about is bringing dollars into the state through out of state hunters. He cares nothing about in state hunters or landowners (of which I am both). We face the same problems in western Kansas re pheasant hunting. Hayden wants to start the season a week earlier in spite of reports that the hunting will be hindered by unharvested crops and warmer weather. He will probably push it through despite opposition by many Kansas farmers, landowners and sportsmen.

This is not a slam on out of staters, and I realize that some farmers subsidize their incomes through leased land, etc. But it is another chapter in the evolution of hunting into a rich man's activity.

Fin

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I feel a warm spot in my heart when I meet a man whiling away an afternoon...and stopping to chat with him, hear the sleek lines of his double gun whisper "Sixteen." - Gene Hill, Shotgunner's Notebook
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Ron Overberg
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:47 pm  Reply with quote
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I was once told by a biologist that predation and habitat were the biggest problem in our bird populations. I'm sure a general statement like this is not the only answer but as a basic reason along with our regional concerns there is cause to worry. It has become more and more difficult to find ranchers or farmers that allow access to their land for bird hunting all over the west. Bad experiences or the need for income seems to dictate land access. I can't say anything negative because it is their dirt. The land owner can control the habitat and will be the main reason for the continuation of our sport.(IMHO). Game departments only control people and money. Just one mans thought.
Ron
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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:56 pm  Reply with quote
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RD, Fin, and Ron-I agree with all 3 of you. I was suprised at all the guys just participating in this Forum that have or hunt Ks. Hard issue-KDWF needs the license fees for property development but also agree over-hunting is a real issue. At least KS has done a great job with their Walk-In property-much more than S. Dakota and I found some very good property E. of Liberal this season. Much better than S. TX-essentially NO public property and leases START at $3-5000/man/yr. The King Ranch makes more money on the leases than they do raising cattle. I've been in the middle-of-nowhere S. Dakota (near Presho) and EVERY piece of land is posted and mostly leased-and I can't blame the landowners a bit. Big conflicts in S. Dakota between the landowners and the 'road hunters' too.
Experienced what RD was talking about myself. For 5 yrs, 4 of us were part of a lease just S. of Eudora in Douglas Co.-not exactly rural KS! It was family land owned by two brothers who grew up in Lawrence but had been bankers/oil men in Great Bend. Had it in CRP with food plots mostly for deer but happy to let us hunt quail. 4 pieces, 40-160 acreas and all had birds. We never took more than 2 birds out of a covey at a time and let one piece of property rest for 2 wks before hitting it again and the first two yrs were great! Unfortunately, the 3rd yr we let in a new guy who, contrary to our agreement and unknown to the other guys just pounded the properties until all the birds were gone and NEVER CAME BACK-could have killed him when the property owner told me that the guy's vehicle was there almost every morning!
I am aware of, but did not personally witness, several groups of 'city hunters' doubling their limit by cleaning the birds from the morning and going back out and limiting again. Have heard a guy brag about killing so many quail in the Flint Hills that they had to leave some of them out in the field. And most of the guys are self-absorbed jerks with money and with license plates with JO and SG (you know what I mean) Coyotes and bobcats are an increasing problem but it's the 'skunks' with a license that are really hurting hunting in KS.
There are some wonderful people in KS but so many are now un-connected to the land that they seem to have forgotten what a privilege hunting is and our duty to honor and protect the game we harvest.
Sorry for the rant once again.
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fin2feather
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:34 pm  Reply with quote
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Rev,

That's not a rant; you are spot-on!

Fin

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I feel a warm spot in my heart when I meet a man whiling away an afternoon...and stopping to chat with him, hear the sleek lines of his double gun whisper "Sixteen." - Gene Hill, Shotgunner's Notebook
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John Molnar
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:31 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 24
Location: Maryland

Sorry to add to a hijacked thread..

I don't know much about busting up a covey of quail and keep hammering them until none are left.. Sounds like the guys that shoot the roost until they run the birds out. All are jerks... And need a good talk-en to.... Sad thing is 90% know what they are doing and don't care.....

As far as the most destructive things I have seen devastate the rhythms of wildlife are 2 things:

1) No till farming or as I call it "All Kill farming" Not only are these guy the biggest welfare recipients going they are killing everything.... (Boy did I just step into it.....)

2) Here is the 800 lb gorilla that is setting in the room that no one wants to talk about....
Immigration..... in 1965 we had 180 million people in the USA... Now we have 300 million plus between 12 and 25 million illegals.... I don't know about you the places I used to hunt are now track housing and Malls... Baltimore City, Richmond , New York , La , Boston Etc... is slowly and surely getting filled up with people that have just came off the boat.. And the population that used to be "city dwellers" are forced out.. And with them comes the city........ I hope we as a Nation have the courage to change it.. I think we do...
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662
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:10 pm  Reply with quote
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John,

You'll have to explain your views on no-till farming, because I don't understand how it hurts hunting.

I do know what the farmers like about it, especially in drier areas: it preserves soil moisture (very important in these hot, dry years in much of the Great Plains), and it conserves gas.

Granted, farming from fence to fence destroys a lot of habitat, but that's a different issue.
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John Molnar
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:32 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Feb 2006
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662 wrote:
John,

You'll have to explain your views on no-till farming, because I don't understand how it hurts hunting.

I do know what the farmers like about it, especially in drier areas: it preserves soil moisture (very important in these hot, dry years in much of the Great Plains), and it conserves gas.

Granted, farming from fence to fence destroys a lot of habitat, but that's a different issue.


All I know is Pre-All Kill Farming we have pheasants and hedge rows... Post All-Kill no birds or hedge rows. The places the plow could not reach was cover..... Now there is nothing... The Farmers Creed: Fence to Fence and push back the woods line and cut and burn...


I have to get some sleep.....
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662
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:28 pm  Reply with quote
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I agree about loss of habitat, but let's be clear: no-till is not the villain.

No-till does not equal fence-to-fence farming. That's a business decision, to maximize tilled land.

No-till is a conservation effort--conserves water and gas.
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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:08 am  Reply with quote
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Agree with 662-I think John is referring to 'Clean Farming' that started with the growth of the huge corporate farms in the 70's-80's. Recomended by the charming Secy of Agriculture Butz (sp?) Best thing that ever happened to birds in the Midwest was CRP. With the aquifer drying up in Western KS, farmers are converting to 'dry land' crops with less use of the huge pivot circle irrigators and putting the 'corners' into wheat or CRP.
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Rabbitdog
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:37 pm  Reply with quote
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WOW !!! ALL this and still no Red Label 16 ! Great discussion folks. This is what I like about this forum. As long as the topics are not Politics or Religion I think I'll be here a long time. Maybe someday I'll get to meet some of you gents.

New question; What is the lightest (weight) O/U in 16 you can think of ?

Later...Rabbitdog
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Foursquare
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:44 pm  Reply with quote
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Location: S Fl

Rabbitdog wrote:
New question; What is the lightest (weight) O/U in 16 you can think of ?

Later...Rabbitdog


My 28" FAIR LX 400 Gold tips the electronic scale at 6.25 on the nose.
I believe the Citori Feathers come in right at 6 lbs even, but don't own one so can't tell you for sure.

Pete
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