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Nearly all gun writers recommend using hard shot for tight patterns. What are the brands of high-antimony shot. I've read that Lawrence brand "magnum" shot is hard, but it isn't made in #5 as far as I know. I've used Lawrence coppered 5's, but I don't think they are particularly hard--but I don't know that for sure. I've also used the imported Italian nickel stuff marketed by BPI. What else is out there and what have your experiences been with the various brands? The tightest patterns I've obtained so far were with some British Gamebore factory #5 1/2 low velocity loads that didn't even have a shotcup or wrapper. I'd like to duplicate that performance with handloads--I'm getting closer by using low pressure and protected shot columns, but I think hard shot may be what I'm missing.

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While Lawrence shot is considered one of the top quality shot, you may want to try "Carson" shot (out of Carson, NV). It's dropped chilled shot which has the highest antimony (I believe) tested by Tom Roster. Being in MN, you may have a tough time finding it but if you can, you'll be very impressed with its quaility. Talking to some reloading places, they are getting some hassles from various unnamed places in the purchase of of quality lead. I live in Northern California and Carson, NV is just over a mountain range from me but it's hard to find a bag of it, so I buy alot of it whenever I run across their shot. I was in Washington state last year for some waterfowl hunting and went into the local Sportsmen's Warehouse and found the jackpot of this brand of shot. A few hundred pounds later, I brought it back in my pickup with some nice honkers and ducks. You may want to try this shot out because IMHO it just seems to be the best stuff out there and you may want to check with your local Sportsmen's Warehouse out in MN to see if they carry that brand. If not, you may want to call around to see if you can get a bag shipped to you. I know shipping costs will kill you but I'm assuming you'll be using this for pheasants so I doubt that you'll go through a 25 lb bag that fast.

west coast magnum was tested in Guns and ammo or Gun digest one of the 2. The article went on to say it is the hardest and best shot, Better than all the plated shot on the market. The only shot equal to it in quality was Kents diamond shot,but you can't buy it.

Lawrence shot is about thre most widely distributed shot nationally. It used to be one of the best for quality and hardness. I think the demand has outstripped their ability to make it in both the needed quanity to satisfy demand and maitain proper quality. However, they do make #5 shot in magnum or extra hard shot. for most hunting loads, it is adequate to the task. Lawrence has been living too long on its old reputation. They do not deserve the premium most folks pay for the stuff now.

I've used West Coast magnum shot in 7-1/2 and 8 for trap targets for the last 2 years. It is very good. Its "chilled" shot is not a high antimony shot. It is fine in #8-1/2 and #9 for skeet and close range SC targets. The #8 might be ok for 16 yard trap singles practice targets. I tend to use only magnum rated shot for registered trap singles and all handicap birds.

Surprisingly enough, some of the best hard (magnum) shot I ever bought was the old Star and Nazca magnum brands imported out of Chile and Peru.This shot was incredibly uniform and hard. It patterned extremely well. It was also very inexpensive compared to US brands. I shot a string of registered birds with it that I'm still trying to duplicate. I also used he chilled #9 shot for skeet. It also patterned extremely well. Most American trap guys turned their noses up at it. So much for uninformed opinions. Clueless is as clueless does. Unfortunately, Mr. Clinton's administration put the nix on bringing in lead shot from outside the US. The stuff is scarce now and no longer cheap either. I'm hoping the regs get changed again so So. American shot can be imported cheaply again. I'll buy all I can get and smile kindly at the no nothings who scoff at it. 16GG

Thanks to all of you for your informative replies--this forum is great! I see we have a Sportsmen's Warehouse in the north Metro--I'll check them out to see if they have the high-antimony version of the West Coast brand. If that fails, I'll check Scheels for the Remington if I ever get up to Fargo! The wind is still fairly calm, so will head out to the pattern board and see how my latest low-pressure experiment performs.

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That's what I get for putting a post late at night...the sharper readers are correct that I should have stated "West Coast" rather than "Carson"..... Tom Roster wrote an entire article in Shooting Sportsmen on best available shot and West Coast got an excellent rating. Don't hold me to this but I believe Roster also mentioned that antimony can change depending upon shot size. I rather have my best quality shot for the larger sizes since I can use #9 for close range, I don't see a significant difference with the #9s when compared to long range shooting with #4 and 5 shot. In the good old days before nontox were in most hunter's mind, I put some great loads with the West Coast shot and 4756 powder. I didn't use high velocity (still don't for lead around 1250 fps) because I just found that I would have just a little too much shot deformation even with using great quaility shot with the higher speed loads. If you're getting bad patterns at 40 yards with receipes over 1300 fps, you may want to work on bringing it down a bit and see what you get.....

Terry, you are exactly right. The percentage of antimony used in the various sizes of magnum shot is highest in #7-1/2 and #8 shot. The #8-1/2 magnum shot is higher than #9 but less an #8. On the other side of the scale, the bigger the pellet, the less % anitmony is needed to make the lead shot as hard as can be made and still remain both round and uniform in size and weight.

Antimony migrates to the surface of the molten lead alloy pellet as it drops to the water tank below while being formed in a shot tower. There it acts as a case hardener. Too much antimony is both wasted and will inhibit the molten lead alloy from forming a nice round shape as it drops and cools.

#7-1/2 and #8 shot are primarily for competitive trap shooting. These two sizes benifit most from the higher % of antimony because nearly all the antimony in the alloy makes it to the surface in time to properly set without harming the spherical shape of the pellet. Plus, these two sizes are easier to damage due to set back than bigger sizes of shot and can use the added protection the antimony gives them. Trap ammo, especially handicap trap ammo must pattern very evenly to be reliable enough to break any bird caught in the shot string. Hard round pellets pattern the best.

#7 magnum pigeon shot also has a fairly high percentage of antimony for much the same reason as trap shot. However, the alloy used cannot accept as high a precentage as the two smaller pellets and still form round pellets correctly. That is why the most expensive live bird loads all have plated shot as well as high antimony alloy.

The size factor determines the percentage of antimony used as the pellets get bigger. #4 shot is the biggest usually offered as high antimony magnum shot. It also explains why bigger shot sizes from #5 up were also plated in most premium long range waterfowl loads before non- toxic shot replaced lead shot for ducks and geese.

For most 12 bore upland loads, magnum shot is not really needed for #5 and up. Chilled will serve about as well. Some argument might be warranted for using plated #6, #5, or #4 shot in the 16. I just use the magnum stuff and split the difference. My heavy 16 hunting loads crush pheasant under the worst conditions I'd dare hunt in and as far out as I'd dare shoot at them. Most of my 16 ga pheasant loads are loaded with 1 oz of magnum #6 and very few birds hit well need a second shot or even a wrung neck. They die in the air.

This is not true in the smaller bores like 20, 28, and .410. The shot in these sub gauge bores is subjected to more stress from being fired through a smaller tube at higher pressures. Plus, because smaller shot loads must be used, each pellet must remain rounder and fly straighter. Therefore, I'd recommend using the best shot you can stuff in them for hunting loads.

I use nickel plated #6 or #7 shot in all of my heavier 28 ga game loads. I use # 7-1/2 or #8 magnum shot in all my other 28 and .410 hunting loads. My 28 ga.#7-1/2 grouse loads also get plated shot. It does seem to make a difference in how well these little bores hit and kill. I can attest that my plated shot 1 oz. #6, 28 ga custom pheasant loads kill reliably all the way out to 35 yards and a bit more if needed. My .410 will dump stocked quail with a 1/2 oz of magnum # 8 or 8-1/2 shot very well out to 20 yards and a bit more.

I don't advocate #9 shot for anything bigger than hummingbirds (which I would not shoot anyway so don't get all huffy here Rolling Eyes

). I've had snipe get up and fly off after being well hit with #9 shot. They don't make it through 8 shot though. So I use what works well. I want my hunting loads to kill cleanly. They do. 16GG.

Terry, how did I miss that Roster article--what issue was it in? I'm loading way down in velocity, now--generally less than 1200 fps and pressures under 7000 mostly when loading #5. As I have lowered pressure, patterns have improved. Warm gloves are a necessity for fully half of our season, hence my IC and MOD SxS is a single trigger shotgun and therefore I can't go for the back trigger to select my modified barrel when a bird jumps well out.. The mod barrel already has a dense enough pattern, even with my "ordinary" loads, but I'm making progress with patterns through the IC barrel--just about there in fact, maybe a little harder shot now will do it. Actually, my 16 has always done a good job. Out to 35 yards, I get results as described by 16gg, i.e. dead birds. I'm just trying to build in a little extra "edge" for those late season birds that are really tough. I don't normally shoot at birds beyond 40, but range estimation being what it is, sometimes that bird that looks lke 35-40 yards is actually at 45--that's why I'm trying to get all I can out of the 16.

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Don't hold me to this but I believe this is the one where he goes into details re. the best shot....

http://www.shootingsportsman.com/index.php/page/search/file_action/search/articles/1/new/0/p/2

Ceder, if you are using plastic wads that contain at least 85% of the shot, then try this old competition turkey shooter's trick. Get a short piece of 1/2 inch diameter dowel and insert it into the shot cup to support the petals and keep them from collapsing inwards. You might need to wrap some duct tape around the dowel to get a perfect fit. Now wrap some scotch magic tape around the wad once or twice to keep the petals from flaring.

The tape will prevent the petals from flaring as much and your shot patterns will tighten up quite a bit. You can experiment with how high up on the petals you wrap the tape to get the best balance between pattern coverage and density. Too much will sometimes cause the wad to hit the end of the shot string. About half way up is a good place to start. fool around with it. you'll be amazed at what you can make a wad do to influence patterns. Just don't shoot any birds in close with any of these loads. It will puree the heck out of them. They are strictly for birds past 25 yards or more so just track them a bit more before slapping the trigger. 16GG.

Thanks again to all of you for info. 16gg, I can easily try the tape enhancement. One of the loads that has performed well used the Rem SP16. Since I already have baseline performance data on that load, I can add tape and compare results.

Cedar, the old saying that there is "nothing new under the sun." rings very true when it comes to shotguns. Shotgunners of the 1830's and later used a wire cartridge or shot cup woven of wire to contain the shot for long range waterfowling past 40 yards. This of course was in the days before choke was used. Probably, the idea predates the percussion era, but it became common practice once the perscussion cap shortened lock time to the point where accurate wingshooting was much more easily and reliably done than with flintlocks. Some of the wingshooters of this era were incredable shots and easily the equal of today's best shooters when given allowance for the technological developements in gunmaking we enjoy today.

Muzzleloading shotgun barrels were straight bored with maybe a bit of very slight taper to help the guns "hold close" (pattern tightly and evenly at the normal ranges) and shoot a killing pattern out to 40 yards. Only the very best barrel makers understood how to do this properly by laboriously hand lapping and polishing a bore to the right internal dimensions. Cheaply made guns never had this much time and labor put into their manufacture They did not pattern nearly as well nor could they safely handle the stout powder charges needed to produce the extra velocity to hit hard enough to kill at 40 yards or longer every time. Hence the term "best gun" did not have so much the connotation of fine embelishment as much as reliability and available power. It was only later that best gun came to mean a gun made with both much hand labor and embellishment.

The problem of obtaining the tight patterns needed for long range shooting was solved by weaving fine copper or brass wire shotcups or "basket cartridges." The shot was loaded into the basket and inserted and rammed down the barrel over powder and wad. A card wad was placed over the shot to retain it in the barrel.

Different gauge wires of softer or tougher alloys were used to determine the range at which the basket would rupture and release the shot. These cartridges were color coded according to the range they were commonly used at. The longest range cartridges would kill waterfowl at well past 80 yards using heavy charges of big shot like 2 ounces of #1 lead shot over stout charges of powder. it was said the faster the cartridge was launched, the further out it would hold the shot together before releasing it and the harder the shot hit.

So the idea of retarding the flare of a plastic wad by taping the petals is an old idea coupled with new technology. Live and learn. 16GG.