16ga.com ~ View topic - And once more into the breech...16ga breech naturally

Well. it looks like my week to find stuff. I've just negotiated a deal involving another 16 ga. AyA SxS. This one has a grayed receiver with moderate fine scroll english style engraving, side plates, an H&H style sidelock action with kerston or greener cross bolt plus underlugs, and twin triggers. The barrels are 70 centimeters long (27.5 approx.) choked mod and full. The stock is made of moderately nice wood with a birds head or Prince of wales grip, slick finish (not flat) swivels and a sling. The gun appears to be 90-95%.

I will know better in a week or so when it arrives. I get a free looky lou for a few days or so. The seller seems both pleasant and straight foreward. The owner says its a 116 model. I'm wondering if its a European or English market #1, 16 ga. Thoughts and info please. Do side lock AyA guns have solid or coil springs? I think the locks are removable for service, but don't have the easy detach feature. At least the gun does not have the lever headed side screw some do. Help "OLE DUMBASS" get lucky once more or keep him out of harm's way. Laughing

HEY!!! LARRY!!!!! HELP! Confused

Thanks guys, 16GG.

PS; I'll bet you never thought I'd end up on this side of the swimming hole where the big kids play. H&H style? Side locks? Twin triggers? Spanish gun? Geez. This web site is affecting...affecting...affecting me.

Joined: 08 Oct 2005 Posts: 241

The model 116 was part of the old AYA line before the Diarms experiment (1987-1988).
The gun featured the Purdy triple locking system.
When AYA was reorganized in in 1989 the model 116 was not included in the lineup.
Seeing that the gun had sling swivels it was almost certainly made for the European market.
When you get the gun in hand I can tell you when it was made by the Spanish date code on the water table.
I have never seen a aya model 116 for sale.

"The blue book says this:
MODEL 116
- 12, 16, or 20 ga., 27-30 in. barrels, any choke, hand detachable H&H sidelocks, double triggers, engraved, select checkered walnut pistol grip stock. Disc. 1985.
Grading 100% 98% 95% 90% 80% 70% 60%
$1,000 $845 $795 $750 $675 $600 $500

Last MSR was $1,125"
The above quote was off another forum but sounds correct to me.

Sound like a great find!!!
16 crazy

Member Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 989 Location: Las Vegas

16gg:

Unplug your phone and your computer! Lie down on the couch with a cold compress on your forehead! With a little luck this fever will pass. I feel it is bad luck that you had all these great opportunities arise in the same week. I know it can stretch the grocery budget!

If at all possible please post pics of these latest aquistions! (sp?) I and others would love to see them!

Matt

Member Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 743

Guy, did you locate that one off Gunsamerica? I spotted it over there, thought it was probably a pretty good buy, even better if you bargained a bit on the price. That gun will probably be a bit on the heavy side for some 16ga shooters' tastes, with the Greener crossbolt etc, I'd guess in the 6 1/2-6 3/4 range. I certainly would not turn my nose up at it for a pheasant gun. Blue Book values for the 116's, I think, are probably on the low side. You don't see the older model SL's very much, and given what they're asking for the new ones, I think that one's a good buy. No ejectors, which lowers the value, but should be a good hunting gun.

The little lever makes for really easy removal of the lock plates. I'm about 99.9% certain that gun will have V springs rather than coil. You can remove the lock plates, but you'll need thin-bladed screwdrivers to keep from buggering the screws.

16Crazy And Larry B. thank you very much for the info. Its nice to know the gun's history and that I'm probably on the safe side of the deal so far. I also have the seller's permission to shoot it a bit before deciding. That is always a good sign of the seller's integrity and faith in the gun. Also, the fact that the gun is over 20 years old and still is in good shooting conditon is a good indicater that its probably pretty much problem free. Being a 16, its a safe bet it has not been used for much target shooting and will have many years of service still left in it. I'd also like to say the seller is one of the most pleasant folks I've ever had the pleasure of talking with. Seems the two qualities usually go hand in hand doesn't it.

Yes, it was on GunsAmerica, and yes, I negotiated. I'm pleased with the deal moneywise as much as I'll ever be, being such a damned tightwad. Laughing

. Don't we all want the moon for a song?! And yes, the new gun price of an AyA is a huge factor. A plain 453 boxlock brings at least twice the money now. It think this gun is much handsomer IMO. I don't even want to look at new Grullas and Arriettas.

As far as the sidelocks, I was pretty sure that they'd be solid springs. I'm hoping replacements are fairly easy to find. I don't think its safe to assume AyA still uses the same configuration spring, but it would be nice if they did and would simplify matters. I'd buy at least one complete set. Thats one of the first places I'll Look, inside the locks if I keep the gun.

I have a multiple tip driver system and personally grind a custom bit for any of my gun screws. I have a fairly good collection too. I did notice the screws were out of time a bit. I'm hoping this is not an indicator of problems. New AyA guns have all perfectly timed screws. Perhaps the older ones did not. Its a small matter of retiming them and not that hard to do if one knows how...which I do. I can also clean up a slightly buggered screw so its not noticable except to the most practiced eye.

One question to 16crazy, you mentioned A Diarms experiment in the mid 1980's. Are you referring to the systemization and standardization of the Spanish gun making community practices to improve the product safety and quality standards? Thanks again guys.You've been a big help. 16GG.

PS: CF, you can probably get a gander on GunsAmerica. type in AyA 116 under search. It was still there yesterday, but keepa you hands offa da gun. I saw it first. Laughing

And remember...so many guns...so little time! Wink

Well, 16gg, I looked at your AYA 116.......VERY nice, even for the asking price......I'm amazed at what that price can actually bring home.....I'm sure you'll fill us in some more when it comes in!

Joined: 08 Oct 2005 Posts: 241

16GG The Diarms experiment could hardly be called an effort to improve the safety and quality standards of the Spanish gun makers. The Diarms group was formed by 20 Spanish gunmakers including AYA. The idea of Diarms was formed from a study commissioned by the Spanish Government and carried out by a Swiss firm. One of the conclusions of the study was the side by sides wouldn't sell in America!!!!!

According to Terry Wieland in "Spanish Best " the major problem with all the small gunmakers before Diarms was marketing the product. Not only exporting it but having huge importers wanting a gun built to a certain price. So Diarms sort of was the wrong answer to the right question. Wieland has an entire chapter explaining this in his book.

BTW Now that you own two Spanish guns I think you are required by law to own a copy of "Spanish Best" by Terry Wieland. Maybe that is just in California!!!

I did look at your gun. Nice job! A few rounds with that and your Brownings will waste away on the rack!! Laughing

Again, once the gun is in hand, the production code can easily determine the date of production. All Spanish guns have the code.

16 crazy

Just a gorgeous gun 16GG. Care to rub a little of that gun buying luck off on me? LOL... I can't complain though, I just got a super deal on an SKB Model 100 and a GREAT Parker Trojan. The only thing wrong with both of them is they aren't 16s.

While we are on the subject of AYA and Spanish Bests, I have a chance to go to Spain with a great friend of mine who grew up there. He is doing his PhD in Spain and wants me to come with him this summer. I accepted on one condition, that we go to Eibar and let me look around at the factories and guns there.

So, my question is, Has anyone here done that? What should I look to do in Eibar?

Brad

My biggest concern is the availability of parts for a somewhat uncommon 25 year old discontinued Spanish gun. Does anyone know if AyA has an outlet for parts like replacement springs, firing pins and strikers, etc. These are the parts that occasionally fail in all guns. I'd like to think I could repair it in this case. Any info would greatly be appreciated. Also, has anyone a clue what a set of springs would be if they had to be made and fitted? Thanks 16GG.

My AYA 4/53 needed a repair. Sent it to Jack Rowe in Enid Oklahoma. Great service with total time of about five days!
But if you're still worried, just ship that little Spaniard to me

Jeff

Lucky for you, the 4/53 is still made. The 116 has not in 25 years. By the way, what needed fixing and how much? wHat's Jack's phone number? I need details, thanks.

does anyone know if AyA has a repair facility or list of repair stations in the US? Their web site is useless here.

Joined: 08 Oct 2005 Posts: 241

Kybrad16- Terry Wielands book "Spanish Best "would be a great travel guide. He talks you through a tour of Eibar. I would look hard at taking advantage of that offer.

I am of the understanding that you can order a gun in Eibar from a maker for about half the price of buying from an importer in the US. However the trip takes up the other 50%. Never having done this I can only relate what I have read and my knowledge of airline tickets and travel.

I am also of the understanding that ordering on your own is not without its disadvantages. Number 1 is the language difference. Also if you receive your gun and there is some problems you maybe talking or writing to someone in Spain. I trust it can be difficult to explain a problem over the phone to someone several thousand miles away with which you do not share a common language!

That being said, I have also found it difficult to get someone 200
miles away who speaks English to understand a problem also!!!! Smile

On a side note I was in London for sometime in college and decided to take my wife there on our honeymoon in 1992. At the time I toured Purdy, Holland and Holland, Boss and Rigby. I was able to handle guns in every establishment. In fact the folks at Rigby seemed happy that I was there and hauled out several guns from storage for me to look at. I did make it clear that I was not buying and was not leading them on. They seemed like they just enjoyed the discussion. My point being I have never regretted taking advantage of this and I doubt you would ever regret taking your buddy up on his offer.

On a side note the Folks at Boss were some of the strangest folks I have run into. When we walked in they sort of ignored me for a bit and didnt seem care that I was there. The older gents in the shop kept ignoring me but a younger guy finally asked me if I needed any help.

16GG- I will post this weekend concerning the contact info on the AYA Factory authorized repair gunsmiths in the US. They are Jack Rowe and I believe Hugh Lomis. I just don't have their info in front of me.

Thanks 16C, I 've got it already. I was able to fumble my way around the AyA site. They are listed as US distributers. I also addressed a question to AyA directly via e-mail. I hope they get it and respond.

I am entering into the same area most older Spanish double owners do sooner or later out of necessity. However, I'm scouting ahead before commiting the troops. If the answers I get are Nyet!, then I'm going to exercise my option and pass on this one for obvious reasons. This gun is a fairly rare model in the US and even rarer because of the gauge. It is also not a high value/high demand one either nor is it ever likely to be. Finding another for parts will probably a very long and futile search. The only way I'd buy it is if the parts and service are both readily available and in line costwise with the gun's present value.

There are enough inexpensive Spanish orphans out there in N.E. to easily build a fair sized memorial to broken and discarded firearms. I understand custom made parts are prohibitively expensive. Such expeditures may be warrented on a 5k and up gun, but certainly not this one, a 90%er valued at under 1.5k at 100%. At some point common sense has to rule. I'm not going to gamble good money on what may very well turn out to be a losing proposition. I'd rather save it and look for a better deal on a more serviceable gun. Besides, I already have the Matador, and it shoots well enough for me.

We shall see. I'll keep everyone posted. This might turn out to be a decent object lesson without the high cost for a number of us here. Live with patience and learn with time. 16GG

16 gaugeguy........my 4/53 had a light trigger pull. Jack adjusted it. No problems since.
his address: John F Rowe
PO Box 86
4213 Oakcrest Ave
Enid, Oklahoma 73702
phone 580-233-5942

I bet he can tell you if parts available and you'll find him easy to talk to. He's English and trained in London. AYAs have been very popular in England.

Jeff

Thanks J, I plan to call him ASAP. This gun may very well have been made for the English market. I also understand AyA has or had a very wide net of capable smiths and a large store of parts for their models In England.

but this is not England. I've Always felt that the biggest problem facing the Spanish guns in America has been the poor network of reasonable service stations and hard to find parts.

Guns will break and manufacturing mistakes are made, but these two factors become unsolvable without proper and affordable parts and service. Certainly the quality of Spanish guns has improved since the late 80's. Just looking at them indicates this. Service has lagged far behind and its not smart business. Hence the term "Spanish orphan." I certainly did not coin this term, and have heard it for years. Its a shame too, because these doubles handle very nicely.