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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:09 pm  Reply with quote
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Could any of you guys who have had success in crimping virgin hulls intercede with god on my behalf? Or am I condemned for eternity to use only once fired shells? Sad

Years ago when paper cases were the norm, it was common to be able to buy cases of virgin primed or unprimed hulls from most of the shell manufacturers like Remington and Winchester. You just don't see it anymore. There were special crimping tools to help too.

Those days are long gone, like the old MEC 400. Demand dropped off with the advent of plastic cases. Most folks, even the successful ones, found that they damaged too many cases to make it worth while. Now using virgin cases is unheard of for any of the other gauges.

It goes to show just how far back in the pack us 16 ga fans are in the eyes of the industry. We resort to archaic practices out of necessity. But it also shows just what a clevor bunch of guys you all are too. 16GG.
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Slidehammer
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:13 pm  Reply with quote
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16gaugeguy wrote:
There were special crimping tools to help too.

Those days are long gone, like the old MEC 400.

It goes to show just how far back in the pack us 16 ga fans are in the eyes of the industry. We resort to archaic practices out of necessity. 16GG.


16gaugeguy and others,

It seems this is a common problem working with new hulls. Yes, it takes a sharp point crimp starter but the good news is they are still available! The old Mec starter could fit many reloaders if you could find one and is the better one because a resizing ring can screw onto it centering your start. But the one from BP should be fine used with care.....

The crimping should be slowed down with new hulls both to starting and then finishing the crimp. I kind of "bump" the finally crimp two or three times until I bottom out and this allows the thick new plastic to pull into a factory (or better) quality crimp. After this first load the hulls will load as any other fired hull of that brand.

Archaic is not really true.......... The factory starts every shell they load with a sharp pointed starter. It is just that us 16 bore lovers have to do the factory's job in this case!

I have attached a couple of photos. The first shows a new Fiocchi hull, a correctly started crimp with a sharp point starter, and a finished loaded round. The second photo shows an end view of my old Mec starter (you can see it's been used!) and the side view of the new , started, and finished Fiocchi hull. I hope this is a help to any interested.

Slidehammer

I repeat...... The secret is in the sharp point starter. Ask the factory!


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Bronco
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:07 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 158
Location: NW Florida

I have 600JR with the standard 6pt crimp starter and the adaptor from MEC for reloading 2.5in hulls. Other than skivving the new hulls with the tapered stone, I do nothing different than I do when loading once fired 2.75in hulls on my other 600JR. Maybe it's in the skivving. The stone is available from ACE hardware stores. I am new to this low pressure reloading and have never used the skiver from BPI. I had no idea it was such a difficult process Confused
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Haiwee
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 5:39 pm  Reply with quote
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If anybody is looking for once-fired Remington hulls, these guys have them: http://www.precisionreloading.com/
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old16
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:38 pm  Reply with quote
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I have cut alot of my new Fiocchi's from 2.75 to 2.5 to load 7/8 and 3/4 oz.
When it come time to crimp I found also to go slow on the first time. After that everything works great. One thing I did to stop any crushing was to adjust the cam lever about 1/32 one way or the other and i find I don't need a over the shot wad and the hulls don't crush.

If I go slow on the crimp starter and hold on the bottom for a couple of seconds the cheap plastic one seems to work fine. I don't bother with skiving either.

To cut the hulls to length I use a dremel tool laid in a vise with one of those cuttoff disk. Then I lay a block of wood down and set the outside edge of the wood at the distance where where it will catch the rim and the other end at the length where I want to start the cut off. I next clamp another block of wood on top push the hull against and roll it with my fingers as the disk on the dermel does the cutting perfectly straight.

I only takes about 5 min. to cut off 50 shells. I cut my old 1pc Win. hulls down when they start splitting. I get about another 4 yo 6 loads from them.
I use the same wad but cut the peddals back for 7/8 ot 3/4 oz.
If anyone is interested in some pictures on how I cut the hulls of I try to post some . Bill

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Mike Desjarlais
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:27 pm  Reply with quote
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old16,

My experience is similar to yours and others posted above. I don't have any problems with unskivved 2.5" Cheddite hulls from Graf's, as long as I go slow on the final crimp, and have tuned the cam to get a good match to the fill of the hull. I'm using a MEC Sizemaster with the standard 6 point crimp starter. The cam setting seems to be important. It doesn't have to be off much for a few crushed hulls to show up.

I have a dremel tool and would be interested in pictures of your setup for trimming.

-Mike
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:57 am  Reply with quote
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Thanks Mike. It at least proves somebody can do it.

Precision wants $10.00 per hundred plus UPS shipping at about 6.00 to my location. That works out to $.16 cents each or $4.00 per box for hulls. I can buy a case of Rem GL 16 shells for under $40.00. Why on earth would I buy the hulls? Holy Moley! I might be crimp challanged but not math challanged Laughing 16GG.
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Bronco
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:45 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 158
Location: NW Florida

If I could buy 2.5in shells loaded to around 7K psi with 7/8oz of 8.5's or 9's @ $4/bx, I wouldn't even own a reloader Wink
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:17 am  Reply with quote
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If some enlightened ammo company saw fit to load 3/4 or 7/8 ounce 1100 fps recreational loads in a reloadable hull for 40 per case, i'd also buy them. however, I'd still own a good progressive press to load the empties and feed my habit. Besides, when it come to cable, I am a nun. I don't have nun, don't want nun, don't 'spect i'll ever get nun. Laughing so the reloading keeps me from arguing with the dog. Wink 16GG
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Haiwee
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:46 am  Reply with quote
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Well, 16gaugeguy, I'm not math challenged either, it's just that my math is different from yours. The 16 gauge resurgence must be an east coast/midwest thing because most of the gun shops around here don't even stock 16 gauge ammo. Neither do our many local Wally Worlds.

The shops I've found that do carry ammo only stock 1 1/8 oz. field loads (Remington and Winchester), and they want $10.00 a box for 'em, so the Remington hulls from Precision seem like a good deal for me. If I could buy ammo locally for $40.00 per case I might be inclined to put the reloader in moth balls -- except then what would I do for amusement at night after my wife has gone to bed?
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:56 am  Reply with quote
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Exactly! Laughing On the serious side, if you belong to a trap or skeet shooting club, you might try asking the guys where they order their ammo. Most clubs bring in their stuff in bulk from a local wholesaler and have it trucked in to save shipping. Its no big trick to ask the wholesaler if they can order you a case or two of Remington 1 ounce Gl-16 loads in whatever shot you want from 8 up to 6. Most carry the Reminton line and can order what they want from a distributer. If they don't handle Remingtons, then try the Winchester stuff.Belonging to a trap or skeet oriented club has many benifits besides access to cheap ammo.

Is there a Dick's Sporting goods within driving distance of Anaheim. Its a country wide company and it stocks 16 ga in most stores. they often sell the GL-16 promo loads at $36.00 per case or less. I got some in November for $32.70 a case on sale. Ask them to bring some in for you and tell them you'll buy several cases if they can do it during a sale. you can also ask for a rain check. They are on the web and have a store locater.

K-Mart stocks WW ammo in most of their stores and 16 is a common gauge. The new promo load cases aren't half bad to load. Are there any Sports Unlimited, Sports Authority, or any other chains near you. Most of these stores will also bring 16 ga promo loads in if they know in advance that you will buy several cases. Just a few suggestions. hope it helps. 16GG.

PS: if you ever take the 4 hour drive go to Lake Mead or Vegas for vacation, there is a Dick's sporting goods in Henderson, NV right on the way. Give them a call.
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pudelpointer
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 2:01 pm  Reply with quote
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I use a mec 9000g and have no problems with the cheditte hulls some of my best loads come in that hull. I really like the blue imperials. The primers are loose because the cheditte primer is larger than a win 209 try some cheditte primers or resize the primer pockets.
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CitoriFeather16
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:30 pm  Reply with quote
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Haiwee: If you do get to Vegas now and then there is also a Bass Pro Shops right on I-15 as you come into town. I have been buying the Remington Game load there at about $38.00 per case.

Stop on the way in when you still have some $$$ Laughing

Matt
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:52 am  Reply with quote
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Stop on the way before you get to the casino. That way you won't have to shop for ammo in your underwear. Laughing
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sparky
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:15 pm  Reply with quote
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Well I have to tell you I gave up.m I tried most of the suggestions in the forum it did work better, but not real special.
I broke down and ordered a case of remington express, and a case of Fiocchi Pheasant loads. I will try them both and be back with the outcome. Feel free to comment. This is way too much fun...................
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