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<  16ga. Ammunition & Reloading  ~  2 1/2" 800-X loads?
WyoChukar
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:11 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 1678
Location: Hudson,Wy

Anybody out there have 7/8 oz. or 1 oz. load data for 2 1/2" hulls utilizing 800-X? It seems like a natural combination, but data is nearly nonexistent. I have all of the spread sheets and have found basically nothing.

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MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:31 pm  Reply with quote
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Does not seem so natural. 800-X is fairly slow, more akin to Blue Dot. The load you mention begs for Green Dot, could even use Red Dot or 700-X at the "fast burn rate/higher pressure" end, and would still work fine with the middle of the road "burn rate" powders such as Unique,Universal,Unequal,20-28, PB, etc. I'm sure you could make a 1 oz. or 7/8 oz. load work with Blue Dot, but it probably would not be optimum.
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:24 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 545
Location: Central Connecticut

Hi Wyo,

Kinda agree with Smoke. A little too slow for this application, that is why you are not finding any data.

Not sure what you are looking for as far as velocity.

Should be able to come up with something. Unique or Universal would be a good place to start.

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PatrickB
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:53 am  Reply with quote
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Agree with the above responses. What is your objective - pressure and velocity- as that would guide you to appropriate powders.
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Tom Shaffer
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:06 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 79
Location: Grampian, PA

2.5" Fiocchi hull, fiocchi 616 primer, 20gr 800X, SG-16 wad, 1 oz shot. 1223 fps @ 8766 psi. This is a Tom Armbrust load from 08-30-2003.

Here is another Tom Armbrust tested load - 2.5" RST hull, CCI-209, SG-16 wad and 18.2 grains of 800X, 1 oz lead #8, average FPS is 1075 @ 7340 psi with a note that the corrected FPS is 1088

Have fun
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Brewster11
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:35 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 753
Location: Western WA

Wyo,

I think I have exactly what you want...almost.

Cheddite 2 1/2" hull, 1 oz lead shot, 20.5 gr 800-X, Cheddite primer, SG16 wad, 1236 FPS, 9520 PSI per Tom Armbrust

However, I now use the AWESOME SG16S, which is roomier and allows a deeper and more solid crimp than the SG16. The load chronos about the same as the SG16. It is now my go-to all purpose load and works absolutely great in all conditions. BUT I have not sent it off to Tom for testing, and don't intend to. It just shortens the stack.

The SG16S is ideal for large grain powders like 800-X because it provides more room and is a perfect fit for 2 1/2" hulls and 1 oz.

I like the 800-X SG16S 1 oz combo so much that I confess I use it interchangeably with all Cheddite-style hulls inc. RST, Rio, Win, Herters, etc, with no problems except the Cheddite primers fall out of Rio hulls. So I switched to Rio primers for everything, oh well, they work just like the Cheddite primers for me and are a buck cheaper at the club.

I'm tempted to goose up the load a half grain or so to get to 1300 fps, but why fix what ain't broken. Maybe someone else wants to pick this up.

The only issue I have run into is Fiocchi hulls, they don't like to be reloaded very much before the base wads come loose and the walls leak even after I reseat the base wads. So I have a couple tubs of Fiocchi hulls that won't ever get used again.

Good Luck,
B.

PS don't forget to verify your powder bushings with 800-X, the density can vary lot to lot.
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:46 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 545
Location: Central Connecticut

You know, that is something I wouldn't have bet on.

The load I normally use for hunting is a 1 1/8 oz. load that comes in at about the same velocity and pressure and uses 23.0 grains of 800-X. I would have bet good money that 800-X was too slow for a good 1 oz. load.

Nice load.


Last edited by MSM2019 on Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:48 pm; edited 2 times in total

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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:47 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 1678
Location: Hudson,Wy

It seems odd that people would label 800-X too slow, it is well suited to mid weight loads. I have found it perfect for 1 oz. in 2 3/4" hulls. All things equal, pressures do run higher in 2 1/2" chambers and 800-X seems well matched to the situation. I tend to agree on Green Dot being a great powder for 7/8 oz. in either hull length and may stick with that or buy Universal. Green Dot is my top choice for 3/4 oz. in 2 1/2".

Brewster, you nailed it. That is almost exactly what I am looking for. I figured the SG16S would be the right choice and already have some on the way. Good to know about the Fiocchi hulls, I thought of getting some, but won't bother now.

Tom, thanks for the data, it gives me a superb reference point should I choose further developments.

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MSM2019
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:34 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 545
Location: Central Connecticut

HI Wyochukar,

I know you are pretty well set on 2 1/2" fold crimp 1 oz. loads. I think I remember you saying that you aren't interested in roll crimps.

BUT, I have been messing around with this roll crimper I just got and it is kinda nice to take my 2 3/4" load and put it in a 2 1/2" shell without changing the load data.

I have this 1916 vintage model 12 with a 2 9/16" chamber, and now I can use my favorite loads in it.

You are good with your hands and it really is no big deal to load a bunch and then roll crimp them.

Just sayin'.

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Little Creek
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:17 pm  Reply with quote
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Location: Anchorage, AK

If you don't have 2-1/2" Fiocchi or RST hulls, I do.
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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:59 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 1678
Location: Hudson,Wy

Mark, I may be good with my hands, but the thought of messing with a roll crimper when I want to load 100+ rounds just doesn't appeal to me even if they do look really nice. I also don't want all of the drawbacks of the overshot card, including it turning soft if it gets wet on a rainy day in the field. I now have most of what I need to stick with fold crimps and my modified 650 is turning out a nice finished product.

Little Creek, I will send you a PM.

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MSM2019
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:04 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
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Location: Central Connecticut

What load do did you end up choosing?

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fn16ga
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:10 am  Reply with quote
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Here's one I had tested fits nicely

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MSM2019
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:33 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 545
Location: Central Connecticut

fn16ga

I can't read the amount of 800-X. Is that 20.0 grains?

I see you have used a CCI-209......that is the primer 800-X likes the best, and the Remington 209PSTS works well too.

Tom Armbrust and I had a long conversation about 800-X one day. I loved the stuff after he explained it. It is a very unique powder and it is primer sensitive.

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fn16ga
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:18 am  Reply with quote
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20 grains
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