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<  16ga. Guns  ~  Winchester Model 21 ?
Beltondogs
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:56 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Aug 2009
Posts: 26
Location: Michigan

Well.......I'm still dreaming about my first M21. It would be a 16 ga. of course with a straight grip and double triggers and a 28" set of barrels. A fine compliment to three Old Hemlock linage of English Setters. Chokes of .006 and .012. A Guy can still dream......right?

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kgb
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:02 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1256
Location: Nebraska

Beltondogs wrote:
Well.......I'm still dreaming about my first M21. It would be a 16 ga. of course with a straight grip and double triggers and a 28" set of barrels. A fine compliment to three Old Hemlock linage of English Setters. Chokes of .006 and .012. A Guy can still dream......right?


I think the proper dream for an Old Hemlock fan is to have a Purdey. Just need for someone to give you one. Wink
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Winchester21
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:07 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Posts: 321
Location: So Cal

While gun weight and balance preferences are too subjective and personal, I do find that my Win 21's 7 lb weight is perfect for me. I have been shooting this gun for 50 years now and have used a lot of the 1-1/4 oz magnum loads for duck hunting. For my money, with those loads even more gun weight would have been helpful.

I reload 1 oz loads ~1200 fps and still find the 7 lb weight comfortable. And yes, I do use it to bird hunt with. With the gun's balance and grip angle I find that the weight is still easy to carry all day.

And FYI - My 28 ga Citori XS Feather with 30" barrels weighs 6 lbs 11 oz, which is way over the published weight.
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AmericanMeet
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:48 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 3172
Location: NCWa

Win21- Agree with you that weights/handling are too subjective & personal issues for any one size/shape to fit all. The 21 that I have access to is "most handy" to me with its 26" barrel & 6lb,11oz weight. The loads are 3/4 oz for quail up to 1 1/8 oz for pheasants/chukars. If I'm shooting at a bird I generally have no notice of the recoil. As far as carrying it all day, if I ever start to thinking that any of my guns are heavy I just harken back to the times when the gun I got to carry all day weighed in at 25 lb, and ammo was a pound for every 7 rnds.
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XVI'er
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:58 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 972
Location: Keller,TX

I have been privileged to shoot several 21's in 16 bore over the years. If you discount the weight and the style of stocks, all have handled very well and shot to my POI well enough. Just looking at the gun as a mechanical object, I don't think they are any better or worse than any modern SxS by any top maker. Mystique is certainly a factor, and you certainly will have plenty if you purchase one.

I shot KGB's 21 at several shoots we both attended. He had custom stocks one one year, and factory stocks the next. I shot pretty well with either one. Laughing If I had the finances at that time, I would have purchased it. Compared to todays prices, it would have been a steal. Embarassed

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fred lauer
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 7:37 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 602
Location: western pa

Glad you brought this back to the top Win. 21. I just purchased a 16 bore 21 field model with 26" bbls. and hope to have it before the end of the month. I've done a bit of study on 21's and as near as I can tell, total production is about 30,000. Of that, would you hazard a guess as to the number that are 16's? I would suspect that it would be less than 10,000. That number, plus the expensive material and labor intensive production of the gun would account for the high price in my mind. I recall the first one I ever handled at an auction about 20 years ago and thinking to myself "dang, I gotta have me one of these some day". That one was a well worn 16 skeet model in about 50% condition and I was shocked that it went for over 3 grand back then. Anyways,Thanks guys for the additional info that you've put out there. Fred

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ejsxs
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:36 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 78
Location: Santiago

Fred,

According to Ned Schwing ("Winchester´s Finest: the Model 21") pre-WWII production of 16GA was 13% and during the post-war era was 10% until 1958. During the Custom Shop era, 1959 onwards, 16GA % was even lower. So you can say confidently that out of 30.000 guns or so, no more than 3500 are 16GA.

Mine has 28" barrels, BT, PG, M/F chokes, 15.5" LOP (including extension), 3.145 Kg (6lb, 15oz.). Works fine for pigeons and doves as a standing gun. For rough shooting I use a 16GA Josef Winkler that tips the scales at 6lb with a hand guard.
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double vision
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:36 pm  Reply with quote
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fred lauer wrote:
Glad you brought this back to the top Win. 21. I just purchased a 16 bore 21 field model with 26" bbls. and hope to have it before the end of the month. I've done a bit of study on 21's and as near as I can tell, total production is about 30,000. Of that, would you hazard a guess as to the number that are 16's? I would suspect that it would be less than 10,000. That number, plus the expensive material and labor intensive production of the gun would account for the high price in my mind. I recall the first one I ever handled at an auction about 20 years ago and thinking to myself "dang, I gotta have me one of these some day". That one was a well worn 16 skeet model in about 50% condition and I was shocked that it went for over 3 grand back then. Anyways,Thanks guys for the additional info that you've put out there. Fred


Fred, good luck with your 21! I've always wanted a 16 gauge 21, but it would take a windfall to get one right now. Sad
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BigCreekMI
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:39 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 582
Location: Great Lakes

I have a few M21's. My 16 is 28" two barrel set (IC/M & M/F). It is a bit heavy compared to a Citori SLF, but balance is excellent & weight is not that apparrent except on scale. I have hunted the gun, but view its highest and best use to be SxS clays where I can use it for any event with any modern shells being provided at the shoot.

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