16ga.com ~ View topic - 16g.(Sterlingworth) Society- new member

Neat Sterly thread here:
http://gunshop.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=023119;p=1

Shuuuuuuuuuuuush, he's back Wink

Have a good time?? I'm leaving for Panama in the am, but not to do the good work you did. Oh well, you'll need someone to look down on when it's all over.. Embarassed

More neat stuff from another forum:
If the gun is a 1920 vintage it most certainly left North 18th Street and Windrim in Philadelphia with a capped pistol grip and chambers about 2 7/16 inches intended for the old 2 9/16 inch paper 16-gauge shells. If the gun was made in 1920, that was a few years before the heavier Super-X type 16-gauge shells came out with a shot load of 1 1/8 ounces, and long before the 1 1/4 ounce shot load 16-gauge magnum shell came out. Stay away from those heavier loads. 16-gauge loads at the time the gun was made were 7/8 ounce and 1 ounce.

There were about 28,000 16-gauge Sterlingworths built. From my observations I'd guess that less then 15% of those have ejectors, and they seem more common in the later Savage made Fox-Sterlingworths. I haven't seen mention of barrel length. Sterlingworth 16-gauge guns seem to be most frequently encountered with 28-inch (Field)barrels, followed by 26-inch (Brush) barrels. Sterlingworth 16-gauge guns with the longer 30-inch (Standard) barrels are rather scarce and ones with the 32-inch (Trap) barrels are down right rare!

More neat stuff:
30-inch barrel 16-gauge Sterlingworth Ejector! What's not to like!! Generally, during the Philadelphia era, 26- and 28-inch barrel Sterlingworths were stocked with 3-inch drop-at-heel, a bit much for most of today's shooters. While 30- and 32-inch barrel Sterlingworths were generally stocked with 2 3/4 inch drop-at-heel which is a bit more user friendly today.

The only possible down side is those 30-inch barrels probably left Philadelphia pretty tightly choked. Keith Kearcher, one of our very best double gun gunsmiths use to live just down I-5 from you in Longview, but he is now in Bend, Oregon. Keith would be a good one to check out the gun for barrel wall thickness and to address any chamber length and choke issues.
http://members.toast.net/keithkearcher/

More neat stuff from another Forum by Ed Muderlak-a Parker author:

"Ansley H. Fox was a talented gun mechanic who, like Baker, Brown, and Lefever, lacked capital. But Ansley did it all: He designed, manufactured and shot fine shotguns at the highest level. He was lauded as a "boy inventor" when he applied for his first hammerless-action patent just before his eighteenth birthday....

"Gunmaking was a tough business when Ansley got involved with the short-lived and ill-fated National Arms Company (1), which morphed into the National Gun Company (2) in 1898, and was in turn acquired by his Fox Gun Company (3) the same year.... He left the Fox Gun Co. in 1900 (4) to represent Winchester ammo in the pigeon ring. His choice of gun was a Parker at the 1900 Grand American Handicap...until he switched to a Winchester Model 1897.

"Meanwhile, Ansley's former associates continued to knock off his Parker look-alikes, and reorganized as the Baltimore Arms Company (5),which failed in 1904. The Philadelphia Arms Company (6) incorporated 1901-02, was Ansley's next Parker look-alike enterprise, which he left to form the A. H. Fox Gun Company (7) that, in turn, acquired Philadelphia Arms in 1906 ( Cool

, and dissolved the corporation in 1907 (9). Our "restless" Mr. Fox left his namesake corporation (10) coincidental with the introduction of the Sterlingworth in 1910, and the result was pre-ordained. The A. H. Fox Gun Company went bankrupt in 1912 (11)...acquired by C. A. Godshalk (12)...and then Savage (13)."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Ansley Fox gave his name to one of the seven "Best Guns Ever Made in America" according to Mike McIntosh in his book of like title, but he also had a pretty eventful corporate track record during his 13 years in the gun business. The old pulp sporting newspapers have him shooting Parkers and Winchesters while he was putting his name and/or designer's thumb print on what are generally considered to be "Fox" shotguns. I count 13 organizational changes attributed to Ansley's relatively brief participation in the gun business; other people may count differently. Nevertheless, the Fox shotgun stands on its own merits without anecdotal "evidence" pro and con--here's some facts:

As to the Trojans versus Sterlingworth built gun figures, for another spin let's go to the Roy Eckrose Auction Summary on <gunshop.com> to see how this plays out in the current collector/shooter marker--in other words, what'll they bring?

I'm using the 2004 Auction Summary in the new book because that's what was available when I gathered my data: According to Eckrose:

16 Parker Trojans sold in a range of $345 to $5,750 averaging $1,333 (13% above $2,000);

32 Sterlingworths sold in a range of $352 to $2,026 averaging $947 (3% above $2,000).

More telling is that 104 Parkers of all types (including hammer guns), grades, and condition brought an average $4,382 as compared to 47 Foxes at $2,351;

The range of Parkers was $345 to $31,625 (AAHE) with 54% above $2,000, and Foxes from $352 to $34,500 with 19% above $2,000--in other words, the Foxes started and topped out higher than the Parkers, but aside from the occasional exceptional gun, they just don't have the dollar-denominated interest that is enjoyed by the "Old Reliable."

And here's the crux: 32 of 47 Foxes were the Sterlingworth (68%) while Trojans were only 16 0f 104 Parkers (15%). This disparity of available guns in the lower grades plays out when it's time to buy a higher grade, higher condition gun. For some reason there's a lot of Parkers out there, while Foxes and L. C. Smiths are relatively scarce, and, suprisingly, scarcity doesn't convert to higher prices. Put another way, the supply is there but not the demand.

For example, 101 L. C. Smiths on Eckrose's Summary brought an average $1,274 with 15% above $2,000, and 45 Lefevers (excluding Nitro specials) averaged $777 with 7% above $2,000.

These are not my figures--I only crunched Roy Eckrose's data. Likewise, the the number of Ansley' Fox's enterprises came from various reliable sources, and the M/S for "Shooting Flying: Parker Guns and the American Experience" has been circulated for peer review. If anybody sees any errors in this I solicit your critical comments. It is a fact, however, that the collector gun market most often places higher values on Parkers than other American made shotguns. A 28-bore Parker sold at James Julia's March auction for $97,500, while a clunker of a Colt pistol brought $431,500, and Julia's once sold a beat out Winchester Model 66 for a record $684,500, so there's no accounting for taste. But we can't ignore the facts by just expressing personal preferences. EDM

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

Rev, that's an awful long winded way of saying Parkers are better than Fox. Wink

*Last edited by revdocdrew on Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:07 pm; edited 3 times in total*

Well yeah, but every time I try to say those words I aspirate and my wife needs to do the Heimlich-and she's starting to get bored with the whole thing Shocked

Since my oppositional little setter dog is totally uninterested in the 'come' command, maybe I better teach HIM the Heimlich?

And here's more Dave:
'while Parker clearly outsold the the Fox in the higher priced graded guns by almost 2-1 during the period, the Sterlingworth outsold Parker's Trojan by about 7-1.'

Now there is a picture we can all do without. Rolling Eyes

Interesting ejector 16 Sterly-unfortunately someone butchered the stock Confused

:
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/gun_inventory/inventory/owatonna/american_sg/498249_fox16stw_owa.jsp
Wonder if Bro Larry has seen this one in Owatonna?

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

Make a good gun for the wife or kids. Wink

Another fun Sterly thread:
http://gunshop.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=023318
Notice how Sterly guys seems to be in a good mood all the time Very Happy

Interesting. I've now received letters on both my Sterlys-fun to know a little more but nothing exciting. The dates listed in the Galazan catalog were off by 2 yrs for my 1915 12g. The 16g dates end with 38' in the catalog but Callahan was able to find the record for my 16 shipped in 39'.
For letters for Savage, Stevens, and A.H.Fox guns:
J.T.Callahan
53 Old Quarry Road
Westfield, MA 01085
Sterlys are $30, graded guns $35.