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16 Candles
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:35 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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Location: Oklahoma

Does anyone out there in 16 gauge land know if the CZ side-by-sides have ejectors or extractors. Their website doesn't say.

16 Candles
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hoashooter
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:30 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 08 Nov 2005
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Location: Illinois

Try this number 1-800-955-4486
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clayflingythingy
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:16 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 311

From my (often faulty) memory: Bobwhite = extractors and Ringneck = ejectors.
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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:30 am  Reply with quote
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None of the CZ sxs are ejector guns. I think the 16's will be Bobwhite only to start with (double triggers, straight grip) although I'm not positive.
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clayflingythingy
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:34 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 311

Larry is correct. I checked my CZ 2005 catalog yesterday PM and both are listed as extractor guns. At one time I would never have made that mistake....had a memory like a new steel trap. I think the trap is kinda rusty now!
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sparky
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:08 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 22 Feb 2006
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Location: Petaluma, ca.

Just picked up a CZ in a 28 ga version in a Bobwhite. Yes a radical departure from 16's but I'm still on the prowl always on the prowl. It has extractors. Very petite. The wood could have been darker like my other doubles. Still fun my kids have taken a couple of the 16 doubles and won't give them back buit I have changed the combo...........
SO close your eyes and think of warmer weather and busting clays.
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Dongotto
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:19 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 69
Location: SW MO

Larry, do you have any idea when the 16ga bobwhite will be for sale? Thanks

Jason

_________________
Shoot like your hungry!
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nossman
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:39 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 235
Location: Southern Oregon

My local dealer informed me that the 16ga Ringneck & Bobwhite are not in the US yet. ETA is May, and CZ-USA has a list of backorders. I was quoted $860 for a 16ga Ringneck, once they're in.
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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:43 am  Reply with quote
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Both Bobwhite and Ringneck are extractor guns. Ringneck has a single trigger. I recently heard from CZ also, and May seems about right for availability.
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 2:22 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 12 Mar 2005
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Location: massachusetts

I've posted before that the heart of a good double is the barrels. Good, well machined barrels with straight, round bores both pointing where they should are essential. Anything less is junk in my opinion. Bad barrels and badly regulated barrels throw wierd patterns and don't put them on target unless you happen to get lucky.

I just finished looking down the bores of a bunch of the CZ guns, both O/U and SxS, and all different gauges that the owner of the shop just brought in. I did not like what I saw. Not one of them had what I would call acceptable barrels. Problems ran from curved bores, to out of round bores, to misregulated muzzles.

I was both shocked and dismayed. I was hoping to be able to put an order in for a new Ringneck with this shop. I have an in there and could have gotten a nice discount. Frankly, you get what you pay for. These guns are junk. I would not buy one at any price unless I got to look down the bores first.

Incidently, Cole Gunsmithing just dumped a bunch of Rizzini O/U guns back on the supplier for essentially the same reason. I was up to LL Bean in Freeport, Me the last week of January. I looked at a bunch of the LL Bean/Rizzini guns. Same set up. All different gauges. Just one out of at least 6 had good barrels. Again, you get what you pay for. When I pointed out the problem to the salesman, he did not have a clue what I was referring to. He called the shop manager over. I showed the manager. He literally turned pale, shook his head, and muttered something about foreign garbage. He was not happy. The only good part is that Bean's will back up their products to the hilt. So the knowledgeable buyer will have recourse.

Now you know about a possible problem before you buy. Tread carefully and look carefully at what you are buying. Don't buy a headache hoping to get it straightened out after placing your money on the counter. Chances are you will be in for a major hassle. The only fix is new barrels or a new gun. If the majority of them are out of whack, most likely you will get another just as bad or worse. LOOK BEFORE YOU LEAP!! 16GG.
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311A 16ga
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:06 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 50
Location: john day, or

16guageguy

Have a DeHaan 16 U2 (made by Huglu) took another critical look at the barrel: interiors appear perfect with concentric circle reflections; exteriors appear very smooth without ripples; ribbes appear perfectly lain; both tubes shoot spot on, confirmed by my youngest son on our annual eastern Oregon sage grouse hunt last fall (he does the sporting clays thing out of San Antonio). He was expecting to see a less than acceptable 'third world' gun when he came but was pleasantly surprised.

Don't know if I got a better than average gun? (Mark worked with Huglu to get the product he wanted), or has the product 'slipped' in quality?

Son has two Browning Citoris in 16 guage, the recent model shows a definate slip in machining and fit and finish compared to the'70s era one.
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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:38 pm  Reply with quote
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I have not looked at a large number of CZ's at any one time. However, I've been satisfied with those I have looked at--and especially satisfied with those I've shot. Ran a straight with a Bobwhite 28 at skeet (and I don't usually shoot light, short guns all that well), as did another guy I was shooting with--and he usually shoots a K-80, which weighs about 3 pounds more than that little Bobwhite. And he'd never shot a sxs, let alone one with double triggers, in his life. Those barrels couldn't have been too far out of regulation--or else they curved the right way!Smile
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popplecop
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 6:58 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 09 Jun 2005
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Location: Wisconsin

I own and shoot 3 Huglus alot. 1st is a Dehaan SO 12 ga., my duck gun. Has been drug around in the duck marshs for the last 3 seasons, has yet to fail me and shoots at point of aim. Problem is it is ussually behind the duck. I have 2 CZ Bobwhite, one in a 20 and the other a 28. Both went thru a 100 rounds today as they do on most Sundays. I have no complaints with either, when the 16 becames availble I'll buy one. Between the 3 of them they are getting well used and no hitches. I bought them to give some of my older SxSs a break from rougher use. I prefer SG, DTs and non ejectors so they fit the bill. Now I speak only from first hand knowledge of these 3 firearms and will not comment on the rest.
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:16 am  Reply with quote
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Guys, the only thing I can go by is what I saw. I have no hidden reason to bad mouth the guns I examined. I can only in all honesty tell you what I saw and report back based on my experience. I have no doubt there are Huglus, CZ, and Rizzini guns out there with good barrels. It would be hard to establish a good reputation without them. However, these guns I examined were all of the latest lots made. I've seen this a number of times. The market is created. Demand then goes up. Deadlines for delivery must be met, and quality control goes out the door as facilites are stressed to the breaking point to meet the demands.

I saw this same phenomenon with Browning back in the mid 1990's. Sporting clays was becoming hugely popular. Demand for SC configured guns went through the roof. This happened at a time when trap shooting also took a strong upturn. Browning was introducing a staggering list of different O/U models to capitalize on the market and to stay competative with Beretta who had just expanded their line and facilities for the American Market.

The problem was that Miroku was not well prepared for the sharp increase in production. They were forced to turn to alternative measures to build the number of guns needed to fulfill Browning's demand. This was also taking place while Miroku was transitioning from the Invector to Invector Plus system and also trying to meet Browning's plans to introduce choke tubes in all gauges. They got caught flat footed. The end result was that production facilities could not keep up. New production lines were cranked up, new sources of necessities were being tried, etc.. Quality control took a nose dive, especially the barrels. I must have sent back at least 6 guns with bad barrels. Once Browning realized they had a QC problem, they addressed it. Finally, the demand slowed some and Miroku got a handle on the problem. However, it took a couple of years for the bad units to filter thrugh the market and be corrected.

Incidentally, Beretta was having the same problems at about the same time. Unfortunately, they took the "stonewall' approach to solving their QC problem. IE, only the most knowledgable, stubborn, and persistant customers with bad barrels got them fixed. Browning was a lot more accomodating. It was also during this time that I learned what made good barrels good. I leasrned from Stan Baker, Mike Orlen, and others as well as the process itself. It was a learning experience to say the least. I have not forgotten what I learned and the trouble and expense I went through to learn it. Once bitten, twice wise.

Some of you will take the info I'm giving under advisement. Some will scoff. Some will just ignore it. Thats the reality of the human condition. But I can only tell you all what I saw with my own eyes. I will state the core of my warning once more. LOOK BEFORE YOU LEAP. Do not buy one of these guns sight unseen unless you have a firm commitment from the seller or the supplier that any problems will be fixed to your satisfaction or you will get every dime back. Better yet, do not buy unless you can eyeball the gun and can confirm all is good. That it by far the best way. Good luck. 16GG.

PS: I am disappointed that I will not be able to order a CZ Ringneck in 16 ga. I still have hopes of buying one. However, I will not order one sight unseen. I will look at them one by one until I find one that suits my needs based on my knowledge. It just won't be as simple as I thought. That's life.
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1ozload
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:44 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 14

Not to appear uninformed but what should one be looking for when determining if a barrel is "good" or "bad"? My ignorance may be showing but if you don't ask you won't find out.
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