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<  16ga. Guns  ~  Francotte 25 E
prettyfoto
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:55 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 12 Mar 2006
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Location: Redondo Beach, CA.

New guy here -

Just acquired a prewar 16ga. with 2 9/16 chambers. I was told by the seller that it would not be a problem using 2 3/4 shotshells in it, but to avoid using high pressure loads. I've since gotten advice to the contrary, that it is inadvisable to use 2 3/4 of any type in this shotgun. Rechambering was one option, but I don't know what the expense of this would be. The shotgun is in very good condition, has Siemens Martin steel barrells and mirror bores.There are several proof marks on the barrell flats, but have no idea what they signify.

Any help would be appreciated. Love this gun...................

Tom

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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:47 am  Reply with quote
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Tom, I'd heed the advice offered to you over on gunshop. I must have a twin to yours. Recently acquired a 25E myself. Also Siemens-Martin steel barrels, someone had already lengthened chambers and cones. I'm shooting 2 3/4" reloads (7/8 oz) in the gun, and that works very well. Would never shoot any more than an ounce, and that would be in either a lower pressure (European/British) shell or else my own reload. They are beautiful guns! Mine has a 33xxx SN, made right around 1900. Good luck.
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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:49 am  Reply with quote
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Location: Glendale, AZ

Tom: the seller gave you some extremely bad advice. It IS true that the thin modern plastic shells do not increase the pressure AS MUCH as the old paper shells as they extend into the forcing cone BUT this can't do anything good for you (recoil), your gun, or the pattern. There are lots of sources for good 2 and 1/2" loads today (tho' pricey) and the reloading forum can get you set up to make your own.
Larry Brown can probably tell you all about your neat old gun. (and tell us how to pronounce the name)
Good (and safe) shooting.
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prettyfoto
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:09 am  Reply with quote
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Location: Redondo Beach, CA.

Thanks for your expert advice guys.

I think I will leave the chambers alone, and try to get some 2 1/2 inch ammo.

Larry - my serial # is 70116. If that tells you anything. I'd be happy to send you a shot of the barrell flats, with proof marks etc. Also just took a shot of the
receiver, engraving, etc. If you have any info on this, I'd be very appreciative.

Not sure I could figure out how to upload images here. Would need your email
address. Mine is: prettyfoto@adelphia.net

Best,

Tom[/img]

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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:47 pm  Reply with quote
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Tom, by the SN, your gun should be a bit newer than mine, 1909-10 time frame. The proofmarks should include a 16 over a C inside a diamond. You won't find the PV over a lion--that came later. You will probably find the word "choke" and the chamber length (mine says 2 5/8") on the barrels forward of the flats. And on the flats themselves, you may also find a script E and L intertwined, on both barrels. That's a special additional provisional proof, not found on a lot of guns--but it's on mine, so it may well be on yours.

Very nice guns!
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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:09 pm  Reply with quote
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Hey Larry-So how do us Uh-mer-kuns pronounce them guns? (and are they from Belgium or France?)
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prettyfoto
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:40 pm  Reply with quote
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They're from Belgium, that much I do know.

The pronunciation I'm still not sure. Perhaps Fran-kott - perhaps not.

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Brad6260
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:44 am  Reply with quote
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Location: Louisville,KY

Tom,
Congrats on your new addition.

I'm always a bit intrigued at peoples reluctance to jump on the short chamber bandwagon. My personal feeling is that they represent some of the highest quality bargains to be found.

I suspect that 90% of those out there are like you and me and either don't go through that many boxes of these shells or simply reload their own short chamber loads.

Lets be honest here . I suspect there are very few of us that have acquired guns like these that are going to be terribly put out by the extra $3.00-$4.00 per box for shells.

Bring that fine old Belgium gun down here to the bluegrass and we'll take it out with my new 16ga. Westley Richards Hammer gun that finally arrived.
(no tweed required)

Brad

Kindest Regards,
Brad
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prettyfoto
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:01 am  Reply with quote
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No, Brad, it's just that it's a bit of an adjustment to go from the American magnum mentality, to the more refined concept of saving the gun and the shoulder.

You are so right about ammo. My intention is to use the Francotte to hunt pheasant and quail; so unless my wingshooting skills diminish considerably, I'm not going to need all that many shells. And I also agree that these prewar pieces are wonderful bargins, considering the workmanship - particularly in 16 gauge.

I'm sure you are glowing over your Westly Richards hammer gun - sounds super. Bet you have some fine quail hunting down your way. I think it's illegal in California to discharge a firearm. Cool

Best,

Tom

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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:11 am  Reply with quote
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its not exactly illegal to shoot a shotgun in California. However, depending on what part you live in, it can be social suicide to admit you've actually hunted and killled birds and such.

It's the same in the Northeast. I just usually shock these treehugging clowns into silence by tellling them I also take the torn bleeding little carcasses home, rip the skins off, gut them. cut them up and eat them. Some of my neighbors must think they live next door to Jeff Darmer's older brother. What the hell do I care. It keeps them and their poodles off my lawn. Laughing
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prettyfoto
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:55 am  Reply with quote
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Yah! Kill em and grill em........... If it flies, it dies.

A classic case of human intervention was out here in Pismo Beach. I had an opportunity to travel there with a friend who was going up to scout a senior residence for his father. I said I'd love to go as Pismo was famous for their clams, and I really liked clam chouder. Well, as it turned out, Pismo had no clams because CA. had passed a law protecting the sea otters. Well, the sea otters ate all the clams, and according to the restaurant, there werent' any.

Just about every time we try to mess with mother nature, we screw it up.

I must confess that I have a problem with killing Bambi. One of the first motion pictures I saw as a kid.

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Brad6260
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:35 am  Reply with quote
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Guy's,
Regarding the attitude of the tree-hugger/urban moralist you encounter makes me feel blessed to live where I do. Despite the hillbilly jokes Louisville is a million plus metro area and yet I was astonished almost to tears when my fourth grader told me that the Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife officers still go into the elementary schools and teach the same conservation education program they did when I was a kid. It mainly deals with firearm safety, hunter education and conservation.

I would have thought some ACLU Lawyer would have run it off a long time ago.

God bless the Commonwealth of Kentucky !
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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:42 pm  Reply with quote
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You'll often hear the name pronounced Francotty, but it's actually Francot. The e on the end is silent (as it is on Darne as well).
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prettyfoto
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:54 pm  Reply with quote
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Larry - your'e a veteren here. I don't see a lot of images posted on this website ( read that none that I've seen) It appears that it's possible, but the implementation of such is daunting to even fairly experienced web surfers.
Maybe I'm missing something, but linking a url would require that the image was somewhere on the www. My images are on my desktop. There must be a simple explanation on how to upload images to this website?? No?

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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:09 pm  Reply with quote
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About 1/2 way down page 2 of the General Discussion Forum there is a post by mod11rem titled 'pictures' with a couple of answers as to how to post pics. I'm a computer idiot so no help.
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