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< 16ga. Guns ~ Winchester Model 1912. Mfr 1915 Help! |
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Posted:
Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:52 pm
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Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 3
Location: Spokane, Wa
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Posted:
Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:48 pm
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Member
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9463
Location: Amarillo, Texas
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Posted:
Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:11 pm
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Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 591
Location: SoCal-FL- NYC
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i think he is right probably around $400.00. it looks to me to be a 2 9/16th chambered gun, so these are worth a little less. i personally like the 25" barrel and those are harder to find, especially in 2 3/4 chambers. the full choke is pretty common too. its a great gun and if you shoot at all you should try it.
id keep it if it was your grandfathers.
BTW your other photos are very nice, especially your birds in flight. |
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Posted:
Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:18 am
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Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 728
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It appears to be a 28" barrel full choke gun which would be consistent with the date of manufacture. I did not see a good picture of the ejection port but the gun was originally chambered for 2-9/16" shells. It will probably chamber and fire 2-3/4" shells with a fair amount of additional felt recoil, but it is not a good practice and the gun may/may not eject 2-3/4" shells properly depending on the shell and whether a previous owner might have lengthened the ejection port.
I have essentially the same gun and an earlier owner had lengthened the ejection port but not the chamber. I had Mike Orlen extend the chamber and forcing cone to handle 2-3/4" shells and open the choke to improved cylinder and it is a fine shooter. The felt recoil dropped noticeably with the extended chamber and forcing cone. The uplugged magazine holds 6(?) rounds and the gun becomes quite muzzle heavy if you top it off. The $400 value sounds about right but the real price is set by what someone will pay for it. |
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Posted:
Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:05 am
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Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 591
Location: SoCal-FL- NYC
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also, he mentioned it had a 25" barrel, it should actually measure about 25 1/2 " and if it does it is a 26" full choke barreled gun, pretty standard for that year.
i paid a little more a few years ago, but this year i picked up these two for under $400. one is a 1917 26" 2 9/16 gun in very nice condition. the second is a 50's 2 3/4 gun that has been cut down to 26", i dont know why and they did a decent job. the gun actually patterns pretty nicely, but it was a big gamble on my part before i bought it. it was cheap though. |
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Posted:
Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:10 am
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Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 3
Location: Spokane, Wa
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Thanks for all the help guys!! I don't know if I'm measuring right. When measuring the barrel I am only measuring the end of the ejection port to the end of the gun right? it measures 24 13/16" when the gun is assembled.
Are there any other pictures that would help in identifying anything else about this gun? If so let me know.
I really like this gun, and I was thinking about selling it for something I could use since this one does only shoot the smaller shells, but I think I might just get it cleaned up and give it to my kids if I ever have any. Thanks again for all the info, and thanks for the compliment on the birds in flight photos bmc! I love shooting birds with my camera too! |
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Posted:
Sun Nov 21, 2010 12:32 pm
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Member
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9463
Location: Amarillo, Texas
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Posted:
Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:01 pm
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Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 591
Location: SoCal-FL- NYC
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skeettx wrote: |
Hello
What joy, what joy
Save your empty hulls
Mike
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i could not agree more.
but...
i have gotten my 2 9/16 gun to cycle everything remmington make in 2 3/4. we've put about 3 flats through it this season and no issues. i shoot 1 oz 6's at just about everything. ive also shot 1 1/8 6's. it doesnt like the rio, estate, federal or the golden pheasants. it also cycled the last few boxes of nobel #5's, but i dont know anyone that has those anymore.
i did have the chamber and forcing cones lengthened and that helped with recoil. |
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Posted:
Mon Nov 22, 2010 3:03 pm
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Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 3
Location: Spokane, Wa
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It looks like the gun has some small rust spots on the barrel, it looks like they could easily be taken off, but I don't want to ruin it by rubbing steel wool or anything on the gun, what should I do to get it polished up where i don't ruin the gun? |
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Posted:
Mon Nov 22, 2010 3:27 pm
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Member
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9463
Location: Amarillo, Texas
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Hello
If you plan to keep it
you can:
Oil it with a good oil, and leave it alone
Or use 0000 steel wool (YES four 0s) with WD-40 working with the
flow of the metal and then oil
If you plan to sell it, leave it alone and sell
Mike |
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Posted:
Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:27 pm
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Joined: 26 Nov 2010
Posts: 2
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This site is great!
I too have a an older M12 16GA...mine is a 1914 model. Standard model, 26" barrel, full choke. I am really unsure of what to do with it...I do not think it was ever modified to shoot 2 3/4" shells.
I do have a few questions...
So the 2 1/2" shells should work fine in these guns?
I am not sure when it was fired last...any tips on firing it?
What can I expect to shoot with this type of shell? Trap? Game?
At the gun broker site, someone remarked that these older guns are only worth 2-$300 dollars. I found that amazing given I have the first production year for the 16GA and the gun is 95 years old. |
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Posted:
Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:20 am
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Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 184
Location: Dover-Foxcroft, ME
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SocalS14 wrote: |
So the 2 1/2" shells should work fine in these guns?
I am not sure when it was fired last...any tips on firing it?
What can I expect to shoot with this type of shell? Trap? Game?
At the gun broker site, someone remarked that these older guns are only worth 2-$300 dollars. I found that amazing given I have the first production year for the 16GA and the gun is 95 years old.
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2.5" shells will work. B&P F2s are, IIRC, 67mm and might work, too. Most are 1 oz loadings. For clays or field use you're gtg.
Many older M-12s have been refinished, restocked, or otherwise dorked with. That, plus the short "chamber" (really, the ejection port) issue - guns under approx SN 500k - combine to keep values somewhat low. But if you can find unmolested examples for $2-300............buy them all day.
Sam |
_________________ Just another bitter American clinging to his guns out of frustration. |
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Posted:
Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:09 am
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Joined: 26 Nov 2010
Posts: 2
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OK...I think I am going to make this a shooter. It is valued to low to sell and buy something else, and after all, it was my grandfather's gun.
I think I am going to take it to a gunsmith to check out. If it functions, then I might consider re-bluing it.
Any advice on re-bluing a gun this old? Pros - Cons? |
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Posted:
Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:09 pm
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Member
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9463
Location: Amarillo, Texas
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Hello
My advise, clean it up a bit, shoot it for function assurance, then use it for one year before any cosmetic upgrade. If after the year, you still want the upgrade, then OK, but I like my old guns to look, well, old and not new.
Yesterday I took my 1912 Win 20 gauge (made in 1913) to the skeet range and shot one round of trap and two rounds of skeet with it, 2 3/4 ammo and no concerns.
T'was a joyful day
Mike |
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Posted:
Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:02 pm
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Member
Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Posts: 460
Location: Texas
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I would soak everything down in mineral spirits, apply a bit of elbow grease with a soaked old t-shirt rag and then wipe dry using an terrycloth towel, again use some elbow grease, you will be amazed at how much surface rust & dirt this removes, the wood could use the same treatment, use a stiff bristled toothbrush on the knooks & crannies, and also the checkering. Treat the rust spots with 24hr soaking using kerosene and then 24 hrs using bore solvent, they can them be scraped away using a delicate touch with a single edged razor blade, use the blade perpendicular or no more than 40 degrees to the surface to remove the rust spot, go easy and excercise patience.
apply a quality clear paste wax, or rennaisance wax to all surfaces before re-assembly, both wood & metal. Reoil as usual.
http://restorationproduct.com/
When using steel wool, tape off the adjacent area with masking tape, this way you have no tell tale streaks.
By all means keep the gun, since it is an heirloom.
If you plan to use it ,I would consider professional restoration,
http://winchesterrestoration.com/, and would certainly insisit on slow rust blue on your gun.
Beleive me, this gun will continue to increase in value, look how cheap SxS doubles were just 15 years ago, compared to today's prices. |
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