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<  16ga. Guns  ~  Winchester Model 1912. Mfr 1915 Help!
danpecka
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:52 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 3
Location: Spokane, Wa

Hello all, this is my first post, and I was looking for some expertise. My grandfather gave me his old model 12 16ga a few years back and I was trying to find out what it is worth. The serial is in the 98,000 range and this says that it was made in 1915. The barrel measures just under 25" as I recall. It looks to me that it is in pretty decent shape for its age. I don't want to touch it because I know people can ruin the value by trying to polish thier older guns up. I'm gonna try to post some pics, as i do not know much about this gun. Any help on the value would be appreciated. Thanks!!

http://flic.kr/p/8UTEZZ
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dannypecka/5193036873/[/url]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dannypecka/5193634488/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dannypecka/5193036363/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dannypecka/5193036213/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dannypecka/5193036213/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dannypecka/5193035803/in/photostream/
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skeettx
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:48 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9455
Location: Amarillo, Texas

Hello
Welcome to 16GA
Pleased you are here

My best advise is to go to

http://www.gunbroker.com/

then search for win* 1912 16*

or also search for win* 12 16*

You will see they range from 250 to 900 depending on style, condition, rarity, etc

Yours is quite nice for a old gun, good pictures and I would set the price at $400 and this is the high side

see here

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=201823234

Mike
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bmc
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:11 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 591
Location: SoCal-FL- NYC

i think he is right probably around $400.00. it looks to me to be a 2 9/16th chambered gun, so these are worth a little less. i personally like the 25" barrel and those are harder to find, especially in 2 3/4 chambers. the full choke is pretty common too. its a great gun and if you shoot at all you should try it.

id keep it if it was your grandfathers.

BTW your other photos are very nice, especially your birds in flight.
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Spike McQuail
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:18 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 728

It appears to be a 28" barrel full choke gun which would be consistent with the date of manufacture. I did not see a good picture of the ejection port but the gun was originally chambered for 2-9/16" shells. It will probably chamber and fire 2-3/4" shells with a fair amount of additional felt recoil, but it is not a good practice and the gun may/may not eject 2-3/4" shells properly depending on the shell and whether a previous owner might have lengthened the ejection port.

I have essentially the same gun and an earlier owner had lengthened the ejection port but not the chamber. I had Mike Orlen extend the chamber and forcing cone to handle 2-3/4" shells and open the choke to improved cylinder and it is a fine shooter. The felt recoil dropped noticeably with the extended chamber and forcing cone. The uplugged magazine holds 6(?) rounds and the gun becomes quite muzzle heavy if you top it off. The $400 value sounds about right but the real price is set by what someone will pay for it.
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bmc
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:05 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 591
Location: SoCal-FL- NYC



also, he mentioned it had a 25" barrel, it should actually measure about 25 1/2 " and if it does it is a 26" full choke barreled gun, pretty standard for that year.

i paid a little more a few years ago, but this year i picked up these two for under $400. one is a 1917 26" 2 9/16 gun in very nice condition. the second is a 50's 2 3/4 gun that has been cut down to 26", i dont know why and they did a decent job. the gun actually patterns pretty nicely, but it was a big gamble on my part before i bought it. it was cheap though.
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danpecka
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:10 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 3
Location: Spokane, Wa

Thanks for all the help guys!! I don't know if I'm measuring right. When measuring the barrel I am only measuring the end of the ejection port to the end of the gun right? it measures 24 13/16" when the gun is assembled.

Are there any other pictures that would help in identifying anything else about this gun? If so let me know.

I really like this gun, and I was thinking about selling it for something I could use since this one does only shoot the smaller shells, but I think I might just get it cleaned up and give it to my kids if I ever have any. Thanks again for all the info, and thanks for the compliment on the birds in flight photos bmc! I love shooting birds with my camera too!
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skeettx
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 12:32 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9455
Location: Amarillo, Texas

Hello
Keep it and buy the shorter shells
Shoot the 2 1/2 inch ammo in your gun and you will be VERY pleased

http://rstshells.com/rst_classic_shotshells_shotshells.htm

Call them and the ammo will be delivered to your door

What joy, what joy

Save your empty hulls

Mike
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bmc
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:01 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 591
Location: SoCal-FL- NYC

skeettx wrote:
Hello


What joy, what joy

Save your empty hulls

Mike


i could not agree more.

but...

i have gotten my 2 9/16 gun to cycle everything remmington make in 2 3/4. we've put about 3 flats through it this season and no issues. i shoot 1 oz 6's at just about everything. ive also shot 1 1/8 6's. it doesnt like the rio, estate, federal or the golden pheasants. it also cycled the last few boxes of nobel #5's, but i dont know anyone that has those anymore.

i did have the chamber and forcing cones lengthened and that helped with recoil.
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danpecka
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 3:03 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 3
Location: Spokane, Wa

It looks like the gun has some small rust spots on the barrel, it looks like they could easily be taken off, but I don't want to ruin it by rubbing steel wool or anything on the gun, what should I do to get it polished up where i don't ruin the gun?
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skeettx
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 3:27 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9455
Location: Amarillo, Texas

Hello
If you plan to keep it
you can:
Oil it with a good oil, and leave it alone

Or use 0000 steel wool (YES four 0s) with WD-40 working with the
flow of the metal and then oil

If you plan to sell it, leave it alone and sell

Mike
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SocalS14
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:27 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 26 Nov 2010
Posts: 2

This site is great!

I too have a an older M12 16GA...mine is a 1914 model. Standard model, 26" barrel, full choke. I am really unsure of what to do with it...I do not think it was ever modified to shoot 2 3/4" shells.

I do have a few questions...

So the 2 1/2" shells should work fine in these guns?
I am not sure when it was fired last...any tips on firing it?
What can I expect to shoot with this type of shell? Trap? Game?

At the gun broker site, someone remarked that these older guns are only worth 2-$300 dollars. I found that amazing given I have the first production year for the 16GA and the gun is 95 years old.
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Samuel_Hoggson
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:20 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 184
Location: Dover-Foxcroft, ME

SocalS14 wrote:
So the 2 1/2" shells should work fine in these guns?
I am not sure when it was fired last...any tips on firing it?
What can I expect to shoot with this type of shell? Trap? Game?

At the gun broker site, someone remarked that these older guns are only worth 2-$300 dollars. I found that amazing given I have the first production year for the 16GA and the gun is 95 years old.


2.5" shells will work. B&P F2s are, IIRC, 67mm and might work, too. Most are 1 oz loadings. For clays or field use you're gtg.

Many older M-12s have been refinished, restocked, or otherwise dorked with. That, plus the short "chamber" (really, the ejection port) issue - guns under approx SN 500k - combine to keep values somewhat low. But if you can find unmolested examples for $2-300............buy them all day.

Sam

_________________
Just another bitter American clinging to his guns out of frustration.
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SocalS14
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:09 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 26 Nov 2010
Posts: 2

OK...I think I am going to make this a shooter. It is valued to low to sell and buy something else, and after all, it was my grandfather's gun.

I think I am going to take it to a gunsmith to check out. If it functions, then I might consider re-bluing it.

Any advice on re-bluing a gun this old? Pros - Cons?
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skeettx
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:09 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9455
Location: Amarillo, Texas

Hello
My advise, clean it up a bit, shoot it for function assurance, then use it for one year before any cosmetic upgrade. If after the year, you still want the upgrade, then OK, but I like my old guns to look, well, old and not new.

Yesterday I took my 1912 Win 20 gauge (made in 1913) to the skeet range and shot one round of trap and two rounds of skeet with it, 2 3/4 ammo and no concerns.

T'was a joyful day

Mike
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rhtx55
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:02 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Posts: 460
Location: Texas

I would soak everything down in mineral spirits, apply a bit of elbow grease with a soaked old t-shirt rag and then wipe dry using an terrycloth towel, again use some elbow grease, you will be amazed at how much surface rust & dirt this removes, the wood could use the same treatment, use a stiff bristled toothbrush on the knooks & crannies, and also the checkering. Treat the rust spots with 24hr soaking using kerosene and then 24 hrs using bore solvent, they can them be scraped away using a delicate touch with a single edged razor blade, use the blade perpendicular or no more than 40 degrees to the surface to remove the rust spot, go easy and excercise patience.
apply a quality clear paste wax, or rennaisance wax to all surfaces before re-assembly, both wood & metal. Reoil as usual.
http://restorationproduct.com/
When using steel wool, tape off the adjacent area with masking tape, this way you have no tell tale streaks.
By all means keep the gun, since it is an heirloom.
If you plan to use it ,I would consider professional restoration,
http://winchesterrestoration.com/, and would certainly insisit on slow rust blue on your gun.
Beleive me, this gun will continue to increase in value, look how cheap SxS doubles were just 15 years ago, compared to today's prices.
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