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< 16ga. General Discussion ~ Chamber Burst |
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Posted:
Wed May 08, 2019 8:01 am
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Joined: 15 Dec 2011
Posts: 156
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That is scary as hell! Thankfully the shooter was not injured.
Nothing but RSTs in my Elsies or Sterly and always look for an obstruction.
Is it possible that the wad from the previous shot somehow obstructed the barrel?
CAVEAT: I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT GUNSMITHING OR ENGINEERING. |
_________________ Thats right, I'm an armed liberal (SORT OF) and I like to shoot furry little critters.... and I kill 'em with:
12Ga LC Smith
16Ga Fox Sterlingworth
16Ga BRNO
20Ga LC Smith
20Ga Miroku x2 (Model F & Model 500)
28Ga AYA 4/53 (bucket list item #6) |
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Posted:
Wed May 08, 2019 8:03 am
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Joined: 15 Dec 2011
Posts: 156
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fourtown wrote: |
After reading a couple of pages of the discussion about the burst barrel in that link, I quickly remembered why 16ga,com is the only gun forum that I follow.
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Yeah that board has some characters! |
_________________ Thats right, I'm an armed liberal (SORT OF) and I like to shoot furry little critters.... and I kill 'em with:
12Ga LC Smith
16Ga Fox Sterlingworth
16Ga BRNO
20Ga LC Smith
20Ga Miroku x2 (Model F & Model 500)
28Ga AYA 4/53 (bucket list item #6) |
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Posted:
Thu May 09, 2019 6:03 pm
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 193
Location: Nebraska (It’s not for everyone)
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"After reading a couple of pages of the discussion about the burst barrel in that link, I quickly remembered why 16ga,com is the only gun forum that I follow."
Isn't that the truth, that's why I seldom go there! |
_________________ Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius.
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle |
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Posted:
Fri May 17, 2019 3:57 pm
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Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 2016
Location: Glendale, AZ
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Posted:
Fri May 17, 2019 4:25 pm
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Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2127
Location: Hudson,Wy
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Yeah, I have no plans on sidelining my L.C. either.
Just my take on things after viewing these photos in the newest link. It appears that the braze joint had a void in the area of the "divot", allowing metal to expand into said void. Too much heat? Good possibility there.Also, the metal immediately surrounding the divot looks as though it has micro cracks indicative of metal stretching beyond it's point of elasticity.
I notice that the barrel tubes look horribly thin at the braze joint and therefore were very dependent on the that joint giving uniform contact with the lug. Is it possible that the barrels were filed too thin then brazed to a thicker lug to allow everything to fit? |
_________________ Only catch snowflakes on your tongue AFTER the birds fly south for the winter... |
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Posted:
Fri May 17, 2019 8:45 pm
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Member
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1550
Location: Minnesota and Florida
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I'll make a slight adaptation of Ludwig Wittgenstein's quote to say: "Whereof one does not know, thereof one must be silent". I am a mechanical engineer with an advanced degree (Master of Science, Mech. Engr.) specializing in analytical and experimental stress analysis and vibrations, as well as structures, dynamics and fatigue testing. Courses in metallurgy are part of even the Batchelor's Degree in this line of study. I am always amused at all these armchair forum analyses of material failures, especially on DoubleGunShop, replete with fanciful and incorrect terminology, and observations impossible with the naked eye.
Same as WyoChukar and others have stated, I do believe a poorly made braze joint or one degraded by corrosion could have been the initiation point for a fracture in this case. But I'm only speculating, and I'd put a lot more trust in an analysis by RevDocDrew's metallurgist. Let's wait for that. |
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Posted:
Sat May 18, 2019 9:12 am
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Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2817
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa
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MaxSmoke,
I agree 100%!
Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man |
_________________ "L.C. Smith America's Best" - John Houchins
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers |
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Posted:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:53 am
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Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Posts: 2177
Location: Florida
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revdocdrew wrote: |
fn16ga - could you please confirm that the loads tested at 11,500 were Cheddite for Herters “Select Field Dove and Quail” 1 oz. at 1165 fps?
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Yes is I sent in 5 rounds ( with some other stuff I was having done) for the low pressure group .
I have the test sheet somewhere . Only problem with testing factory ammo is as the lot components ( Powder, Primers )change so may pressure and velocity . |
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Posted:
Thu May 23, 2019 6:52 am
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Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 2016
Location: Glendale, AZ
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Posted:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:49 pm
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Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Posts: 2177
Location: Florida
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Posted:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:00 pm
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Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 2016
Location: Glendale, AZ
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Posted:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:08 am
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Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1852
Location: Central ND
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Good stuff. Thank you for putting in the work to get this analysis done. |
_________________ Mark...You are entitled to your own opinion. You aren't entitled to your own facts. |
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Posted:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:19 pm
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Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 1322
Location: Western WA
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Drew,
Many thanks for your attention devoted to this matter and the report. Is there a bottom line conclusion to be drawn from the report for the benefit of us vintage 16 ga enthusiasts?
B. |
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Posted:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:05 am
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Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1852
Location: Central ND
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The inclusion was very easy to see and should have been caught by the owner of the shotgun.
Most inclusions are not visible with the naked eye and that would mean some sort of ultra-sonic, x-ray or other NDT type of inspection which really aren't practical for most folks to have done.
If you think about it, how many of these types of failures have happened with this model firearm? Or any model firearm for that matter.
.......and honestly this failure should have been avoided had the owner been cleaning and inspecting this firearm on a regular basis. |
_________________ Mark...You are entitled to your own opinion. You aren't entitled to your own facts. |
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Posted:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:30 pm
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Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2127
Location: Hudson,Wy
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That is some scary looking stuff in those photos. The analysis confirms a number of suspected issues. As suspected the void/ inclusion site proved to initiate failure. The porosity revealed during testing is rather frightening. Add that to a weak and contaminated braze joint plus possible localized overheating during said process and it seems that this particular cat certainly used all nine of its lives. It's actually impressive that the gun had not failed sooner.
I agree with Mr. Hause that if the engineering of the gun was insufficient, this would have occurred with a good many guns. My Smith will not be relegated to "wall hanger" status anytime soon. |
_________________ Only catch snowflakes on your tongue AFTER the birds fly south for the winter... |
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